Quote: Originally Posted by qiksix Methanol is where it's at. I can't belive alot of other people don't acutaly use it. I run a a real backyard setup on my vl, it makes 366rwkw on pump fuel/methanol on 24 psi on a n/a bottom end. i still cant believe its possible

a friend of mine ran 10.1 @ 136 on 12 stock injectors

Quote: Originally Posted by 7FOUR7 Yeah pretty much! The cost of water is much much less than c16 not just for that though, I'm bored of seeing the same setups day in day out, rb30 with a gt35 so I wouldn't mind doing something that hasn't been done so much for a change same reason i went a gt42 back when it was "just" a race turbo, same reason i used a merge collector manifold, and same reason i fitted water injection... you'll love it, but as usual the only people that will knock it haven't tried it.... or there mate once built a irrigation washer bottle motor style dodge system wait till E85 is available everywhere, W/I plus that ...40psi pump fuel tunes, ha,ha cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Bloody hell are half you guy educated ??? It makes NO difference the fuel you run to how long the bottom end lasts. Rod strength has NOTHING to to with fuel haha. seriously guys your in for trouble if you want to push it so far as to need a water / methonol spray to stop your car pinging. Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 same reason i went a gt42 back when it was "just" a race turbo, you'll love it, but as usual the only people that will knock it haven't tried it.... Darren i HAVE tried it ... Also i had a GT45 on my second calais Good if your willing to risk it ...... crap if u want to do it right Quote: Originally Posted by 7FOUR7 a friend of mine ran 10.1 @ 136 on 12 stock injectors 12 stock injectors ?? lol WTF ..... Quote: Originally Posted by qiksix Dont do anything different around here mate! People just bag the **** out of you and claim that your dreaming! I think you will find that people around here have a massive ammount of experence .. and water spray is NOT different ...... Oh for the record if your using water spray before the turbo I'm surprised no one has mentioned the way the water can damage the fins on the compressor wheel ...... but hey what would i know Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

mate if you had a calais with a gt45 and it had the right supporting mods to make the power assuming, then why did you rave so much about a twin cam with a t3? you said yourself you tried water meth on a stock setup with a crossover pipe. obviously what darren is doing is working. How the **** doesn't fuel have something to do with how long your bottom end lasts and who said anything about rods? So your telling me if your car is tuned on bp ultimate 98 and your running 20psi safely on that fuel and you put 91 octane in it and it pings and melts a piston or breaks a ringland it's not the fuels fault? Quote: Originally Posted by PSIWOG 12 stock injectors ?? lol WTF ..... mate your the one sounding uneducated. The car is a very well known car from nsw, alot of people on this forum know the car and know the owner steve peronally.

Quote: Originally Posted by 7FOUR7 mate if you had a calais with a gt45 and it had the right supporting mods to make the power assuming, then why did you rave so much about a twin cam with a t3? you said yourself you tried water meth on a stock setup with a crossover pipe. obviously what darren is doing is working. How the **** doesn't fuel have something to do with how long your bottom end lasts and who said anything about rods? So your telling me if your car is tuned on bp ultimate 98 and your running 20psi safely on that fuel and you put 91 octane in it and it pings and melts a piston or breaks a ringland it's not the fuels fault? mate your the one sounding uneducated. The car is a very well known car from nsw, alot of people on this forum know the car and know the owner steve peronally. Ok first of all mate FUEL has NOTHING to do with how long your bottom end lasts ! im trying to do u a favor and stop u looking stupid but if you really want to get into this then lets go ....... Fuel stops you from detonation .. it doesnt make your bottom end last longer or be able to hold more pressure. If your rods, pistons, crank, head gasket let go at 25 psi + 400rwkw then it dont mater what fuel you were running there going to let go ...... octane doesnt relate to how much fucking pressure your engine can take, its only a value given to how much the fuel can take before it pre ignights ...... Tune your car CORRECTLY and you can run 30 psi and still have off boost torque (however i wonder about your education level) water injection dose nothing more than cool the inlet charge and fuck the turbo (if its sprayed into the blades) your not making your bottom end be able to cope with anymore ! your just reducing detonation.... its crude and a cheap + nasty way of doing it ! i dont give 2 fucks if 10000000 people on on here admit to doing it .. its still nasty. I have had 3 turbo calais ....... i standard T3.... 1 GT45 and one twin cam high flow T3/4... god for somone following my life story your doing a shit job !! And as for the 10 sec car running 12 stock injectors ?? you cant be serious ..... he got a flat 10 sec engine and was to tight to fork out $500 for some 600cc injectors ??? go back to playing with your lego man, your going to injure yourself with a car I understand people spraying water on the cooler for dyno runs etc but I dont know ANYONE with a half decent car doing it full time on the street.. makes no sense, is cheap and crude and if you have done your management correctly then there is no reason. The last car I knew of thet had this type of system was a turbo carby XE..... I ran water on my calais for over 6 months - when I actually stoped being a tight ass and fitted a cooler + management there was no condition where the water was nessacary.

Is it possible to have the sprays AFTER the turbo, eliminating the possibility of rooting the turbo?

Wouldnt the purpose of the water injectors be to reduce pinging on pump fuel? I don't think its these guys intentions of running a slapper bottom end and saying a prayer while winding up the boost. Its so they can run higher amounts of boost using street fuel to stop detonation. I think theres some confusion in this thread lol

From the sounds your looking at the water injection from a perspective of not needing an intercooler and use the water instead. 7four7 and jetr31 are discussing the use of it in conjunction with an intercooler to get the most of pump fuel. Obviously if you have a forged bottom with carillo rods etc the pump fuel is going to limit how much power it can handle before it starts to ping. With water injection it lowers the intake temps further allowing more boost to be run using pulp.

Quote: Originally Posted by pmac From the sounds your looking at the water injection from a perspective of not needing an intercooler and use the water instead. 7four7 and jetr31 are discussing the use of it in conjunction with an intercooler to get the most of pump fuel. Obviously if you have a forged bottom with carillo rods etc the pump fuel is going to limit how much power it can handle before it starts to ping. With water injection it lowers the intake temps further allowing more boost to be run using pulp. This is where your going all wrong I think ... forged bottom end makes NO difference to when the engine pings, and as i KEEP saying you can run stupid boost numbers on pump fuel if you get your management tunned right and not rely on some crude average cooling. Look PMAC your obviously wanting to learn here but you need to understand the difference between pinging and your bottom end. If your engine doesnt ping regardsless of how that happens, fuel, management, water injection etc etc your bvottom end can only take a ceartin amount of combustion pressure before it cries enough. This doesnt change depending on fuel.... this is only determined by part strength. Now if you run a well tuned management + pump 98 fuel with a good fuel system then water injection has no place ! Remember water injection does NOT take the place of fuel..... if your fuel pump has flowed out it doesnt mater how much water/methonol your shoving in its going to end bad !

I believe these guys already have intercoolers and are trying to achieve even colder intake temps. It makes sense, it maybe cheap and nasty, but it works.

If you get the real kits that are 100+PSI kits (like mine) they are not cheap, or nasty.. but when you run a windscreen washer motor with no one way valve running at 1psi.. nasty is the only word.

Quote: Originally Posted by GMH-JC I believe these guys already have intercoolers and are trying to achieve even colder intake temps. It makes sense, it maybe cheap and nasty, but it works. My next step is definatly engine management not water injection Quote: Originally Posted by [T]Matty If you get the real kits that are 100+PSI kits (like mine) they are not cheap, or nasty.. but when you run a windscreen washer motor with no one way valve running at 1psi.. nasty is the only word. ok well definatly not cheap but at the end of the day why arent we doing this right ? Im more than happy to take a look at the specs on your engines and tell you where you can improve and not use this. Ive never seena seriously quick VL (or any car for that mater) and do something like this. Ive run almost 30psi at one stage and got it not to detonate. If your smart you do it right. I understand why its an attractive option but I just cringe at the thought of seeing people runnign around booting their cars when the resiviour runs out and then bang haha Guys im seriously leaving it at that. Ive said my thing and will be itnerested to watch the other opinions. Nighty night

the motor is stock. Hicomp, unopend. im doing it for that little more saftey when running bigger boost out of my GT3082R Turbo. It has a big intercooler, 480CC injectors, microtech.. the kit is not needed at all, but stock cars dont need coolers but everyone puts them on..

Quote: Originally Posted by PSIWOG Ok first of all mate FUEL has NOTHING to do with how long your bottom end lasts ! im trying to do u a favor and stop u looking stupid but if you really want to get into this then lets go ....... Fuel stops you from detonation .. it doesnt make your bottom end last longer or be able to hold more pressure. If your rods, pistons, crank, head gasket let go at 25 psi + 400rwkw then it dont mater what fuel you were running there going to let go ...... octane doesnt relate to how much fucking pressure your engine can take, its only a value given to how much the fuel can take before it pre ignights ...... Tune your car CORRECTLY and you can run 30 psi and still have off boost torque (however i wonder about your education level) water injection dose nothing more than cool the inlet charge and fuck the turbo (if its sprayed into the blades) your not making your bottom end be able to cope with anymore ! your just reducing detonation.... its crude and a cheap + nasty way of doing it ! i dont give 2 fucks if 10000000 people on on here admit to doing it .. its still nasty. I have had 3 turbo calais ....... i standard T3.... 1 GT45 and one twin cam high flow T3/4... god for somone following my life story your doing a shit job !! And as for the 10 sec car running 12 stock injectors ?? you cant be serious ..... he got a flat 10 sec engine and was to tight to fork out $500 for some 600cc injectors ??? go back to playing with your lego man, your going to injure yourself with a car I understand people spraying water on the cooler for dyno runs etc but I dont know ANYONE with a half decent car doing it full time on the street.. makes no sense, is cheap and crude and if you have done your management correctly then there is no reason. The last car I knew of thet had this type of system was a turbo carby XE..... I ran water on my calais for over 6 months - when I actually stoped being a tight ass and fitted a cooler + management there was no condition where the water was nessacary. I'm not going to argue with you as you have your head so far up your arse you can't see for all the ****. Ah stuff it, I do have something to say: - I will not get into the bottom end or 12 injectors debate but I do have a couple of minor points on water / meth injection. Water injection does not have to be primitive, mine is ECU controlled. Reducing inlet charge temperature does reduce cylinder pressure for the same amount of fuel / air mix (simple physics) and meth adds some O2 to the equation as well. I inject after the turbo as my sprayers can't achieve 5micron atomisation, which is the safe minimum for injection pre-turbo. The setup that Darren uses does achieve this. Another oft overlooked bonus is an engine that is carbon build up free, yet another thing to help reduce pinging. I acknowledge that it won't fix a poor tune, but as a aid, just like an intercooler, it is very hard to beat. How else can I get inlet tract temps below ambient on the street?

Ok you want safe, well im on a stock bottom end (A8) with 317rwkw on pump and 355rwkw on 124 octane. Bottom end is VERY strong and healthy. The bottom end has been going for 20 years, has done 170xxxk's and very reliable. I Have motec and an intercooler the next step for me will be water injection setup, as i would like more power on pulp 98.

Quote: Originally Posted by Alsynon I'm not going to argue with you as you have your head so far up your arse you can't see for all the ****. Ah stuff it, I do have something to say: - be careful who u decide to get technical with mate, I'm sure your a smart cookie with a point to prove but I'm not the one to be trying that on I dont mind people believing different to me I'm just amazed at some of the things i hear. My head is firmly planted out of my ass, I'm just going to sit here and be a passenger from now on - this will be fun I honestly don't give to ****s who blows there engines up doing what, my intention was just trying to educate. The floor is all yours Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Pics of aforementioned GT45 Calais!

Quote: Originally Posted by ATMO_BT1 Pics of aforementioned GT45 Calais! Your about 5 years to late ....... check back to about 2004 and you will see several 4 sale threads on CT with GT45 then not long after my burgandy calais. If after this your not convinced get on aus rotary and I added pics + 4 sale thread there as well....... Lets not side track this thread Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Just had a look, you didn't post any threads in 2004 at all in any sections and a search of "GT45" in the for sale section under all users came up no dice as well. All i found was pics of a Maroon Calais you were selling that had a T4. ...And a GT45 for sale that had never been used, with threads spanning 10/05 to 3/06? Was this the one that came off your earlier Calais or another? http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=55928 http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=69288 http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?t=69872 Pics of GT45 Calais! GT45 ftw! Some original photos have not been recovered yet.