as do all tuners. and as a customer - would you not prefer that your car leaves the shop with no imperfections ? of course. the big answer and question is - what is your budget ? how fast do you really want to go ? and you will always get what you pay for. I would happily spend a couple or few hundred bucks extra to ensure everything is 110% perfect. But then again - not everyone has a full time job, heaps of money to spend - but what really does irritate me is when the young kids get promised the world - spend all their hard earned dosh to only come out with nothing but a dead motor - a car in pieces and not even a basis for the right person to continue with the car... ie jspec lol

Quote: Originally Posted by vltrb-0 all models vary http://www.motec.com.au/m4club.htm my ignition only microtech lt-8s was $750, compared to a m600? $3500? but the motec will rape anyday just isn't justifiable

you only needed ignition only though - I take it your considering gas research ? or maybe a extra injector setup ? if we are talking of lets say a lt-10 or something - once you buy all the extras you need ie: coils, map sensors, fitting etc your looking at close to 2k. For the extra 400 or so you can have a motec m4 fitted - as I said above- its all about the wallet and your long term goals. personally after all my experiences - and im sure your all the same - you have that image in your head of what and where you want your car to be in the future... you can either have it now by skimping out on little things. or you can leave it the way it is - continue to enjoy it and save a bit more. but thats a personal preference, and im not one to talk about patience, because i have none lol - but bare in the mind the poor man always pays twice

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros you only needed ignition only though - I take it your considering gas research ? or maybe a extra injector setup ? if we are talking of lets say a lt-10 or something - once you buy all the extras you need ie: coils, map sensors, fitting etc your looking at close to 2k. For the extra 400 or so you can have a motec m4 fitted - as I said above- its all about the wallet and your long term goals. personally after all my experiences - and im sure your all the same - you have that image in your head of what and where you want your car to be in the future... you can either have it now by skimping out on little things. or you can leave it the way it is - continue to enjoy it and save a bit more. but thats a personal preference, and im not one to talk about patience, because i have none lol - but bare in the mind the poor man always pays twice u'd have to get coils with any ecu and it has an internal map sensor of 2 bar which most wont reach im running straight gas and i couldn't be happier with the way it performs, i have nothing to compare to but it did improve on the standard ecu by a mile. They have come a long way and if your car melts a piston or what not it wasn't the computers fault it only does what its told it has a map sensor, retard on boost function, air intake temps, water temp correction, A/F ratios etc etc

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros Just bare in mind at no stage have I taken a personal dig at anyone here - I appreciate your comments ud lose - but the first part of a quick high powered motec car I did have -and taking a personal stab was unwarranted as we were discussing a ecu not myself as a person. Sorry mate i wasn't having a pesonal dig at you i was just stating the points behind your opinions were far from the truth, but i can see how it can be missread Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by vltrb-0 it has an internal map sensor of 2 bar which most wont reach 2Bar MAP sensor is only good to 14.5psi..... Im sure it can be upgraded to a 3. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Well I wasnt trying to start any wars or have a dig at anyone or any shop, I just genuinely want to know what the issues are and as to why I often read posts on here to stay away from Microtechs. Ok like posted above, they dont have some of the features that a motec or autronic have, but the microtech clearly isnt going to make your motor blow up unless you maybe have skimped out on tuning and let some retard do the work? I am planning a tough twin cam motor for a vl. I dont want to skimp out and have my motor explode after putting my hard earned money into it. But the way I see this is Microtechs deffinatley seem like good bang for buck and a lot of my mates use them successfully without problems in daily street or drag cars, and what some of them have done is actually similar or close to what my plans are. There are some fantastic tuners out there who could say yes they might really only specialise in Motec etc but really... if you were to give them a microtech whats the difference? Software? A few ECU features? If they actually are a good tuner then they would pretty much be able to get a good result in the end regardless what the ecu is I would say. Werent motecs designed for circut racing in mind which actually does require a lot more load points? How many people that use this forum when they go for a cruise on the street would really be able to tell the difference as to how their load points are set? And for the street, who really requires the data logging? I dont blame you for saying stay away from the microtech after having a bad experience, when anyone has a bad experience with something they let people know, but why did you have a bad experience? Who tuned it? Why did it lose your tune? Was it not wired up properly to cause it to reset? etc etc What model did you have and how long ago? Have you looked at recent results with a high powered street car running a late model Microtech? Hopefully I'm making sense and not losing track of the discussion, but I just want to help out the 'poor man' too. And if the Poor man can see that he can be successful and do it once, do it right with a pos microtech with out getting told off and then end up running a good number at the strip and drive home again, then we can all just be happy Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Some of you guys seem to know what you are on about, what would you say to an ECU that has the following: - 8 customizable outputs used for controlling thermo fans, Idle controls, variable cams, fuel pumps, Boost Control, Variable water spray, etc. 8 Injector outputs with 4 to 1 peak and hold current control. 8 Ignition outputs 7 Dedicated Analog inputs Water Temp, Air Temp, Lambda 1, Lambda 2, Throttle position, Manifold pressure and Battery volts. 9 User Definable Analog inputs for normal temp sensors, Pyro/exhaust temp sensors, Suspension measuring sensors, G sensors, air flow meters, etc Stepper motor control Adjustable RPM and load points. 96 RPM points with a 1 RPM resolution and 32 load points with a 0.1 percent resolution. This provides a tuning grid of 3072 points. Define any number of RPM and Load positions you require to tune with. The advanced micro code will perform a 3 dimensional interpolation between all load points. 60PSI MAP Sensor. Connects to most sensors. This means that you can use your existing sensors.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wyndup 2Bar MAP sensor is only good to 14.5psi..... Im sure it can be upgraded to a 3. yeh that bit trips me out 1 bar is 14.8 psi and as far as i understand it uses some of that sensor in vacuum hence only getting to 14.8 psi etc you can upgrade, ****ed if i know the price tag its on the site i'll look into the actual highest reading on the 2 bar and 3 bar sensors Also there is a vlct which is a twin cam 3ltr making 330rwkw on 22 pound and running a microtech from a well known shop. It made more but was detuned cause owner freaked at reliability pushing it that hard WYNDUP http://www.microtechefi.com/pdf/Microtech%20LT8S.pdf supports 25 psi stand $200 for 30psi $250 for 45 psi Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Alsynon Some of you guys seem to know what you are on about, what would you say to an ECU that has the following: - 8 customizable outputs used for controlling thermo fans, Idle controls, variable cams, fuel pumps, Boost Control, Variable water spray, etc. 8 Injector outputs with 4 to 1 peak and hold current control. 8 Ignition outputs 7 Dedicated Analog inputs Water Temp, Air Temp, Lambda 1, Lambda 2, Throttle position, Manifold pressure and Battery volts. 9 User Definable Analog inputs for normal temp sensors, Pyro/exhaust temp sensors, Suspension measuring sensors, G sensors, air flow meters, etc Stepper motor control Adjustable RPM and load points. 96 RPM points with a 1 RPM resolution and 32 load points with a 0.1 percent resolution. This provides a tuning grid of 3072 points. Define any number of RPM and Load positions you require to tune with. The advanced micro code will perform a 3 dimensional interpolation between all load points. 60PSI MAP Sensor. Connects to most sensors. This means that you can use your existing sensors. id say that sounds pretty good, what is it and how much!

Quote: Originally Posted by EVL 51R id say that sounds pretty good, what is it and how much! EMS and there about $1500

ugh, it might be just as good as the rest, but i wouldnt trust anyone in w,a to tune them hence why i wouldnt buy one

ive only had one problem with my Microtech lt8s it got drowned ( half full of water, dont ask how ) the car ran like a bitch then stoped and wouldnt go. The next day i found the problem and dryed out the Microtech. Put it back in and it still runs great Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wyndup 2Bar MAP sensor is only good to 14.5psi..... Im sure it can be upgraded to a 3. Microtech can be easily tuned up to 22-23psi with the 2 bar map sensor you lose a bit of tuning resolution up top, but it is still fine. 3 bar is a $150 dollar option i think, had mine upgraded last time. cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

WOW. so much mis-information being portrayed here! Petros, as a mod id expect more of you really. I mean resorting to calling a product 'microjunk' is pretty low, and conisdering we sponser this site with a big banner with microtech in it and have sold many to the ct.com.au public i for one am VERY NOT HAPPY with your wording (note, i said wording, not your opinion, you're entitled to that!). I myself have had microtech ecu's in my cars, and have installed them in countless others, all to great use. Petros, you say "My opinion - ill start the sentence this way and go from there - is that they were primarily designed for rotaries - WOT - Wide open throttle style of tuning". They were initialy designed as a very very basic ecu which in actual fact had phillips head screw driver ends in the unit which was used to change the map in them. They were designed by microtech in conjunction with people just as anthony from maztech, who, known for his rotaries, tested them and developed them on his car. They werent 'designed for rotaries' as you say, merely tested out on them in the early days as the person doing the testing was the owner of a rotary workshop. Simple. To be comparing what a microtech was back then, or even what an mt8 is to a current day LT10S is just plain FOOLISH as they cannot be compared. They have different processors, different tuning capabilities and development is still happening. You then go on to say "if we are talking of lets say a lt-10 or something - once you buy all the extras you need ie: coils, map sensors, fitting etc your looking at close to 2k." Once again, incorrect. The LT10S (for a vl turbo, as it is a vl turbo site, and i assume you are refering to an rb30) is $1095 from us. It comes with an internal map sensor, uses the factory sensors, the factory ignition setup and comes with a complete loom. Thats $1095, pretty far from your $2k estimate! Then, further you earlier added "And what about logging ? - dont give me this bla bla bla we dont need it - how do you think the rajab race car got so far as to where it is today? proper tuning - logs that show the tiniest of things that the motor is doing and the ability to compare that and fix the problems -" Yes indeed, and what about logging! These days lt10s are available with full wideband monitoring and full datalogging on board capabilities. ATMO_BT1 said "has anyone ever heard of them forgetting their tune before? I emailed TRP about it a while back they said it's the first time they ever had, and cannot understand how it is possible." Bloody oath. In the 9 years i have been installing and selling these ecu's, one of them 'forgetting' their tune is something i have never heard of. Maybe in the dark dark old days of the D4/D5 microtechs which were made in the early 90's or something, but they were tuned with a friggin screw driver! those days are long gone. I know of cars that have had batterys go flat, cars been left for months and months on end and start, run and blast on with no trouble at all. To suggest anything else is unfounded and just plain wrong. High powered rb30's running a microtech? You want examples? OK. I know the rigoli's are big supporters of them.. anyone know what ecu is on boostn? Microtech LT-12s i believe! Darren hunters gemini runs a microtech faultlessly on a 1.8Ltr gemini with 4 1600cc injectors. Car idles fine, and runs 9.70's. runs an LT10S Pac Performance, mx6 drag car, 6.96, microtech lt12S, as well as just about every other car that comes out of there, dalton automotive, dyson rotary, rx engineering just to name a few of the real big players in the performance industry. Worlds quickest and fastest 1JZ - Microtech once again. At the end of the day its a buyers market, and if people read what you have posted they will probably get the wrong impression of a product you have a personal hatred for. Many of your statements are ill-informed and incorrect. I feel you should only be posting your direct personal experiences with them, and feel free to detail those. Pashionate microtech supporter? YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I AM!!!

well said Paul ill be running 1 on my 2J and that will be putting out some decent power!!

By far the best response so far VPW - and I will answer that - and bare in mind its with all do respect. You made a mention that you were dissapointed with my wording - fair enough I understand that - however - saying that you expect more than that from a mod etc and then saying I am entitled to my opinion is a contradiction. If you can tell me - out of the huge range of products you sell (which personally I have bought quite a few) that the microtech ECU counts for more than 50% of your profit margin - then I will happily apologise. The way I see it, you sell the product - fair enough - its not the only thing you sell, its not a ECU that you personally designed and therefore my comments where in no way intended towards yourself, nor your company. true ? And next -in the entire part of this conversation - it seems that it has gone from how they work, to who uses them, how much power they are making, and now they are being compared to other ecu's. I never disagree'd that they did not work and that people have had great success with them, however - for all the information that has been posted here - for all the different arguments and fires we are trying to confide in a medium of agreeance - are you able to honestly tell me that the motec is not a superior ecu to the microtech - in every way possible ? Fair enough about the LT10 - and costing approx the 1k mark complete, but once its fitted and tuned how much is the average joe looking at ? 1800 - 2k maybe ? when for that few hundred dollars more you can get a motec m4 fitted and tuned I have no doubt that the newer microtechs have evolved - otherwise how would a company run - its all about continually improving and I certainly do acknowledge that. You have taken my complete underlying meaning towards this as a personal stab when you can rest assured it was no where near like that. My entire time within this thread has been to simply point out that in comparison to a motec, the difference of paying another 400 - 500 dollars - why not buy the best of the best. At the end - you always get what you pay for yes ? Once again - bare in mind this had no direction towards yourself, and I hope you can see how a strong opinion on spending that bit more can be worth it when you are comparing the two. peace Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros You made a mention that you were dissapointed with my wording - fair enough I understand that - however - saying that you expect more than that from a mod etc and then saying I am entitled to my opinion is a contradiction. If you can tell me - out of the huge range of products you sell (which personally I have bought quite a few) that the microtech ECU counts for more than 50% of your profit margin - then I will happily apologise. The way I see it, you sell the product - fair enough - its not the only thing you sell, its not a ECU that you personally designed and therefore my comments where in no way intended towards yourself, nor your company. true ? I dont take them as a personal comment towards myself, but knowing the guys from microtech very well i dont like to see the product rubbished, just like you dont like it when people say things about the rajab guys (you didnt build the rajab race car, but get upset if someone was to discredit it in anyway. true?) Quote: Originally Posted by Petros And next -in the entire part of this conversation - it seems that it has gone from how they work, to who uses them, how much power they are making, and now they are being compared to other ecu's. i thought seing as you said rajab's and bresciani always use motec that it was only just to supply some examples of workshops who prefer to use a microtech Quote: Originally Posted by Petros I never disagree'd that they did not work and that people have had great success with them, however - for all the information that has been posted here - for all the different arguments and fires we are trying to confide in a medium of agreeance - are you able to honestly tell me that the motec is not a superior ecu to the microtech - in every way possible ? I would never say the microtech is superior to a motec, it isnt! But it also isnt designed to be and isnt really targeted at that market either. Quote: Originally Posted by Petros Fair enough about the LT10 - and costing approx the 1k mark complete, but once its fitted and tuned how much is the average joe looking at ? 1800 - 2k maybe ? when for that few hundred dollars more you can get a motec m4 fitted and tuned Id say about $1650 installed and tuned it about the going rate at the moment for an lt10s in an rb30. What is the going rate from a motec? My entire time within this thread has been to simply point out that in comparison to a motec, the difference of paying another 400 - 500 dollars - why not buy the best of the best. Quote: Originally Posted by Petros At the end - you always get what you pay for yes ? Certainly do, but also, tricks bells and whistles can confuse people into buying something that they just dont need! Have a look at the success that many JPC cars have with plain bearing turbos Vs rollers. Also i note motec has tried to get into the 'entry level' ecu arena, and specifically the rotary market. What they offer is called an M2R ecu to suit rotaries. It has 4 injector drivers, 4 ignition drivers and 1 aux output. That is you can drive 4 injectors, drive 4 coils and 1 other item (so either a BAC valve or a fuel pump or a fan or water injection etc, but only one of these!!) I also believe the price for the unit is about $1495. that is without the loom, without the sensors, ignitors etc. So for no change from $2000 you get an ecu that controls the basics but cant even switch a thermo fan on, cant run an idle stepper motor and cant do anything out of the ordinary that most of the other cost effective ecu's on the market for rotaries that can do all that and more for less! Inteligent debate, isnt it great!

i had a chat to aaron at intune performance over here in perth, hes the biggest seller of motec and haltech products in the state, he said he wouldnt sell me a M4 for my car due to it only having 4 drivers, he said m600 only, and would be CONSIDERABLY more expensive then the m4... Ill ask once again, how does the Haltech E11 stack up against firstly the M600, and secondly a unit like the LT10S?

have a look for the price on a m48 bro