Quote: Originally Posted by -VB- 4 cahnnel amp, one channel to each mid bass driver (the big speaker) and one channel to each tweeter just gotta turn the gains down for the tweet. as for benifits etc, go here: benifits of goin active (http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76589) yeah thats what i meant thanks.. but that site just went way over my head Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Just a quick question, is it better to have a over-powering amp over the sub or to have the sub under-powered. Example: is it better to have a 400RMS sub and a 500+RMS amp. OR have a 400RMS sub and a 300-RMS amp? Or is it better to match the RMS give or take 100RMS

Quote: Originally Posted by MaD_WoG regarding the porting, someone ported my sub box, and it sounds CRAP! hardly any base and sounds very thin, i shoved a rag in the hole and MUCH better now Porting sub boxes is only for the SPL guys yeah?

yeh lol its pretty technical, theres still heaps i dont get too. thats just the site where i go to learn about car audio. the baics of that thread, some of the pros on there 'shiny' etc run active, with the elits sound systems, and ones that win competitions. persoanlly i wouldnt bother with bridging to the front or running active, i'd just get some more speakers, either in the rear or more fronts for a 3-way setup, this is what im thinkin of doin in my car when money permits

yeah seems like a lot of playing around might give it ago if i cant get it to sound good its only a little bit of wiring to change back.. one thing tho do i get rid of the crosover that comes with the speaker and just use the cross over on the amp or do i wire it up to the separate woofer and tweeter inputs on the crossover??

get rid of the crossover, just use the amp

J_VL it's generally better to over-power a sub. you can always adjust your gains so that it is never getting too much power. The benifit of having say a 600rms amp going to a 400rms sub is that you amp will have 'headroom'. this means it doesn't have to work as hard to give the sub its 400rms needed. but if the amp was rated for 300rms then it would be pushing beyond it's limits and going into it's theoretical limits which cheep-ass brands list on their boxes. this means that the amplified signal going to the sub will be 'clipped'. instead of getting a smooth curve for the woofer to go out then back again, it has the top of the curve chopped off it, hence making the sub's cone stay out longer than it should. this means that there is still power running through the sub's voice coil even when it is out far and is in a stationary position (albiet for a split second). this causes the voice coil to become exessively hot because the air is not able to circulate around it as it would if it was a clean smooth curve.. it just stay s out there getting hotter while the power runs through it. This wouldn't happen even if you had an amp which was more powerfull than the sub, because the amp would still give that clean signal and hence the voice coil may still travel outwards FURTHER, but it will not STAY out there in the same position getting hotter and this is what usually 'blows' speakers. it's actually much harder to break a speaker by over-powering it than it is by underpowering it but asking it to do more than it can. A good example is a Digital Designs 9500 serioswoofer. it is rated at 3,000 RMS, yet will still take of ratings of up tp 10,000RMS CLEAN POWER (proven test results and only for a couple seconds). sure, the cone eventually smashes itself to bits after x amount of SPL comps, but it's better to buy a $300 re-cone kit than a $2,500 or $5,000 AMP which has ***cd itself coz it can't deliver the power. sh!t i babble :-) in short, overpower is good, just adjust the gains.

Good thread Now make it sticky dammit Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Awesome thread mate...i had no idea about audio gear but now i finally have a clue!!!! Question/Help though - I dont have all the money i want to go all out with screens and subs and all that stuff... i was looking at buying 6" splits with 6x9's in the back. Spend roughly around $800 on a head unit and that will about do me. SO for the question...do i really need an amp that bad and what sort should i buy!? A bloke i spoke to said i could run it off the head unit? (then he spoke all kinds of technical sh1t and then i tuned out!) - I dont understand the RMS and all that sh1t so if you could point me in the right direction that would be sweet! I dont really want subs because my car is a daily driver and i need the boot space! Any info would be awesome Cheers lads BJ

If your not having subs, but are prepared to shell out $$$ for a decent head unit then, no you won't need an amp. A good head unit will be enough. But amps always help. If your going to buy an Amp get a 4 channel. You don't need a massive one but something like a Kenwood or Pioneer mid range would be sufficient. Shop around, stay away from Boss and other crap like that. Sony (In my opinion) are underated when it comes to car audio. Bang for your buck, they ain't bad.

so if i were to buy pioneer competition splits and 6x9's with a quality head unit would that suffice? Or would it be a waste of money with no amp? im pretty keen on getting the pioneer gear with room to add to the system down the track. So if i won tatts this weekend (can only pray!) and decided to go and buy 2 15" 1000W subs in box, what would i need to run them? The bloke at JB said that pioneer were average and kicker were the shiz...just left me confused.

Firstly JB people no SFA about audio gear. They just want to sell you the most expensive gear. Secondly, no such thing as "competition" audio gear, it just makes it sound homo. Pioneer isn't too bad for price and output, have you got the part numbers for what you want to buy? Check their website and let us know what your looking at

i was thinking i got: - TS-C160R splits - TS-D691S 6x9's (they're 2 way...should i get 3 way?) - Top of the range head unit...either DEH-P8850BT or DEH-P9850BT ...and a sh1t hot security system! thats still about 2k...although i should know someone who can get it for me cheaper than the RRP... Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

persoanlly, i wouldn't get a top of the range head unit, then go cheap on the other stuff. if it was me, for that kind of money: eclipse CD3000 $350 entry level splits from hertz/jaycar kevlar splits - <$200 jaycar 4 channel amp - $300 pionner 306C/alpine type S sub - ~$200 install/cables/sub box - $200 if you can do most of it yourself, 4-500 if paying someone else

so u might want to upgrade? k, simple. first you need to look at caraudioaustralia.com.au you will find answers to EVERYTHING there if you use the SEARCH tool. but there's a lot of stuff so i'll help a tad. ok brands like pioneer are aimed at your average 'beginer' car audio guy. if u want to upgrade stock gear and dont have a big budget and aren't a huge sound quality nut (SQ), brands like sony and pioneer are ok. my 1st system was made up of a lot of entry-level components which included 2 pairs of pioneer 3-way coaxial 6"speakers, pioneer "400watt amp" for the sub and a pioneer "600 watt" sub. and sony HU. $1,000 installed. i was happy for 3-4 months before i wanted new stuff. while this gear satisfied my need for new gear, it didnt satisfy it for long. now i have $500 splits, a $900 amp powering them and a $500HU (head unit). my sub amp+sub are the same bt they will eventually be upgraded to a $1,400 sub and something around a $1500-2400 amp (undecided). why? coz i love my audio (i'm a drummer) and i love my car. makes sence. i am happy to spend that much money on it. to me, it is worth it. i'm not going to try tell u what to get or what's best for you. because it took me $1,000 worth of gear to realise that i was actually happy to spend about $8,000 on gear. it was that first step that did it. so, if u want a $500 HU, ask yourself do you need it? will it be the strongest link in the system when it's complete or the weakest? i think most audio buffs would say the strongest 'link' should be the front spleakers, followed by the amps. a $100 HU will still have the same sound quality as a $700 HU, but with less features. do u need all those features if your're only even spending $300 on speakers? if u want a complete system that you will not touch again, look at spending around $1,500 including install. Oh and first, cheap companies such as sony and pioneer over-rate their stuff to get it to sell better. they often state the MAXIMUM amount of watts thir speaker can take/amp can produce. 'real' companies tell people the products real output. an example: a sub can take 500watts CONTINOUS power. meaning you could play a not (say 40hz) all day every day at 500watts RMS and the sub could handle it. a sub's MUSIC rating is what it will generally take whilst playing music. see music has gaps in it, which gives the sub voice coil a change to cool and 'have a rest', so it can take more. this may be around 1,000RMS. the MAXIMUM the sub could take is 1,500RMS. this means you play that 40hz note through it at 1,500wattsRMS for a couple of seconds and it would take it. this is what pioneer and the likes state! so when you think you're buying some awesome 1500watt sub, you're actually getting around 500 of true power. not as good hey? and pioneer are real bad when it comes to rating their coaxial speakers. my 1st pioneer 6" cost me $90 a set and they said they were rated at 220watts. wow. they actually took 35wattsRMS. big difference. HOWEVER, i have a quality hand-made pair of MBquart splits which cost me $500 and were rated at 120RMS, BUT i put 300watts RMS through them each on the odd occation and they take it coz they are under-rated. they are from a quality manufacturer who don't lie about they ratings and hence they take more power and are worth every dollar. *takes a breath* hope that made sence. i'm just typing whatever comes to mind here so if it's jiberish stop reading now coz it's gonna continue. On to your system *front splits (where there is a 6" midbass and a 1" tweeter in separate areas-hence the name splits) are a HUGE player in SQ. the diffrence between coaxials and splits are big. even cheep splits will often sound better than coaxials that can cost 2 times as much. Coaxials have like all 2 or 3 speakers together, hence the name 2-ways or 3-ways. their frequencies all interfere with each other coz they're coming from the same place, so the SQ is not as good and u get less clear trebble. *a decent HU. sony HU's for like $250 have a sub control, 3 pre-outs (so u can control front/back speakers and the sub independently) and an MP3 auxillary input at the front. the mp3 input is a huge selling point for them. *sub: u can get alpine type s for quite a good price in a box. should be able to get the price down if you buy this stuff all from the same price. alpine are very respectable and make quality stuff, even their lower-end stuff (the type-s). sub amp: always OVERPOWER your sub. meaning if an amp is rated at 500RMS, try get a sub that matches it or is lower. you can always adjust your gains (see earlier in this topic for a bit of detail on this) yeah. get a good install and you're set. try not to worry bout 6x9's for teh rear if u get a sub. the sub provides all the bass you need. *alternatively, ditch the sub and go the 6x9's if ur on a budget. it's worth a 4-channel amp in this case as an amp will instantyl improve the sound quality of even a cheap pair of speakers (dont expect mirracles though). if you want a good system that you will possibly buy piece-by-piece, read on. HU: look for features. Pioneer are up there in bang for buck and features in the world league. Alpine are great with their iPod integration (can't beat value for money here) and also some great features. look at around $350-450. anything over that and you're looking at complex feature like time-alignment and the likes which you might never really use. *SPLITS: some great brands are MBQuart (hand-made in germany, even their 'starter' pair is $350 and is hand-made and takes good power!) morrel, hertz, focal.. middle-of-the-road brands' top end stuff usually doesn't compare to even a high-quality brand's mid-range stuff, and it will cost too much more. example many people prefer an mbquart reference split ($500 middle of road) than alpine's top-range splits which cost around $1,200. why? coz all mbquart do is peakers. all their money and research goes into that. apline does amps, speakers, hu, dvd players and all, so they could never be top of the heap. Splits are the main point of your music so spend god money here. LISTEN to different brands as each brand has it's own 'colourisation' to music. EG the 'quarts have a titanium tweeter and hence are quite bright. whereas focal have a softer silk dome (i think) and so aren softer. LISTENING is the key here. FRONT AMP: a 2-channel is a good invesment and anything over around $600 is 'respectable' when ur putting together a good system. alpine make quality amps at a good price. their PDX range is known to cost a bit, but the SQ is right up there. SUB: *getting tired* ok, so many things to look at. but the basics are that you need to look at RMS rating, not max power. brands like alpine, rockford fosgate, clairon are all quite good middle-of road subs. the alpine type r's sell like hotcakes. good bang-for-back and SQ. Digital Designs are the masters of SPL (loud stuff, basicaly) and can be had for a reasonable cheep price in the lower-end regions. dd subs go way up, taking a rated 6,000watts RMS for short burbs (i've HEARD one tested with 10,000rms going through it and it takes it. they are king).ddaudio.com to check more info. SUB BOX: ported boxes are good for getting a louder bass sound, but aren't the best for tight bass. a sealed box is used by many for SQ comps because it goves good tight bass with punch. SUBA AMP: you'll want a monobloc here. it's just 1 channel straight to ur sub. try to avoid sony/pioneer here. a good sub amp will make your bass tighter and more responsive. you can't beat a jaycar response amp for bang-for-buck. amazing. but SQ sufferes. DO NOT use response amps for splits. you need a good amp for those as that's where like 80% of urmusic comes from. OTHER: Sound deadening in the doors and boot decreases rattles and ups your bass hugely, especially in the doors. get it for your doors and apply 2 layers. you will laugh out loud in amazement when you hear how much mid-bass is coming from your doors (if u have good splits that will give it to you without wanting to die after a minute). SPARE/UPGRADE BATTERY/ALTERNATOR: if u have mroe than 1000watts RMS giong through your system, you must upgrade your alternator wire to something thicker, and try upgrading your stock battery to something like a Oddessy or Optima Yellowtop. it will mean no 'blinking headlights' and it will mean your system has the power to use when you need it; it's not straining. a second batter may be needed for the sub if you have more than about 2,000RMS going through your whole system or if u have a very powerfull sub (say over 1000RMS) and plan to turn it up loud for long periods of time. K, i'm tired. feel free to add things ppl. this is just my point of view. i just touched on everything a little but there's so much more to learn before you splash the cash. RESEARCH carefully. spend that extra week saving that extra $100 for splits etc and you will not regret it, coz once you have it it isn't going to get better untill u spend more money, which, if you've dont it right the first time, shouldn't be for a while. NOTE: car audio is a drug. sure, it's not officially registered as such but i can tell u it is. haha. sleep. -Tang

So your repeating everything the great one has already said in the first post of this thread? Cool

i added many things he left out. he already had many things that i left out. if u dont choose to be ignorant and dont see it as repeating, you will learn more from this

Honestly Raptor...who gives a sh1t if he repeated some of the information. Both posts were incredibly helpful and now i feel confident in going out and purchasing a new system...the whole bloody point of this thread. If it doesnt concern you, don't bother posting at all....go annoy people on some other forum and save us the hassle of reading your sh1t! Other people appreciate it

Hey Mufftang, what do you think about these? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2006-NEW-FOCA...QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2006-NEW-FOCAL-165A1-6-5-INCH-COMPONENT-SPEAKER_W0QQitemZ5877436200QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3292QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) Been contemplating whether to get these beasts or not. Seems too cheap to be real honestly. Only $300 shipped? Are these fakes or just the bottom of the line of Focals?

seems genuine if you look at the feedback and what they offer. but when you look closer at things like "we have support 16 hours a day" it's actually some guy sitting on MSN which seems a little dodge. AND if u get them for $300 to your door, consider that according to the aussie focal website, they RETAIL for $259. http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pictures/access.htm they're not a bad speaker. i haven't heard this type but they seem to be made of some quality stuff and focal are a top-end brand so even this lower-end stuff will sound mint i'm sure.you can get speakers which have more power-handling capabilities for this price, but do you want it? if ur not getting an amp to power these they'll be ok, but not when you turn it up real loud and want it pumping; it may clip and distort. you'd benifit a lot from an amplifier if you're getting quality speakers put in. also, check the mounting depth. they look to have a rather large magnet and there's a gazillion posts on this site asking 'will these speakers fit my doors?' check them out as well. Oh and yes they are bottom-line but dont be fooled- they should still sound better than even a high-end pioneer.