my mate had an xf, i used to take it... but it was a while away

has everyone forgotten the xe xf falcon turbo and twin turbo factory cars . don,t want to sound like a ford teddy but either of the factory turbo falcons will stomp a factory vlt full stop . but don,t really see them as being a better car though . i know we weren,t talking turbo cars but just wanted to see if you,s were aware of the terrible xe xf falcons that could blow your doors off with ease .

Ive actually been in a stock factory XE Turbo and it was nothing to write home about, I went in another one also.....the later TT XF which was apparently rated at 220kws from the factory, they go well but I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that the XE's would have VLT's. Although the TT XF would with both cars in stock form. The XE I went in was a carby set-up also, injection would have done wonders. Both cars were tuned at Mike Vine, the XE was actually built by Mike in the 80's as a factory option. You could use this as a guideline, my 185kw 5.0L Auto VN had the XF T5 Five Speed both from the line and rolling at 60kph...ended up being about 1 1/2 car lengths over the quarter. Had those T28's been replaced with larger items then the story would have been a whole lot different. Jake

XF vs VL? You're joking, right? In raw, low-down torque when new the XF probably had an edge. It was also bigger. Otherwise, the VL revved better, looked better, had better fuel consumption, had a far better automatic gearbox, would blow the doors off the Falcon at the top end, handled and steered better and has aged *much* better. The VL has become a cult car the way EH's used to be and seems to be generally regarded as one of the best Commodores; who gives a stuff about XFs? And if you wanted torque, that's what the V8 was reintroduced for... It wasn't the VL that gave Holden sales trouble, it was the VH; the car still looked much the same after being in production for years and sales dropped off alarmingly. Hence the new window treatment (and presumably the wierd square instruments) on the VK. Come unleaded petrol, they had to ditch the old Holden six (good riddance...) as it couldn't be modified to meet the new emission requirements, and after looking for suitable engines they came up with Nissan. The result was IMHO a minor classic that sold like hot cakes; as Autospeed's story on the engine says, the problem was that the yen at that stage went through the roof and the engines became too expensive. There was also the marketing problem that it was only a 3 litre engine vs a 4.1 litre engine in the Falcon, despite the Nissan engine being an OHC port injected gem and the Falcon's a boat-anchor. So Holden went back to the Buick V6, an engine which, according to the Autospeed story, *they'd rejected the first time around*! AFAIC that engine was a massive, cheap and nasty leap backwards. It's a 90 degree V6 for a start (ie a cut-down V8 designed to use V8 machinery) rather than 60 degrees as all decent V6s are and hence inherently rough as guts, it is back to pushrods and it uses a single long belt to drive the ancilleries giving a single point of failure. One of my step-sons had a VN once and it was one of the worst cars I've ever driven; the build quality was awful (including badly faded metallic paint), bits of trim kept coming off, it rode like a truck and the V6 engine and auto were harsh and subtle as a ton of bricks. Give me a VL any day... That said a friend of ours has a VS and the transformation is remarkable; the car and engine were much more refined, a triumph of development over design IMHO. I read once that the VN was originally designed for the Nissan six, and I sometimes wonder what would have happened had the yen not zoomed and the Holden/Nissan connection continued. Could the RB30 have been taken out to 3.5-4 litres? How about twin-cam heads? How about the Nissan Infiniti 4.5 litre DOHC V8 as an option? What about a twin-turbo VG30 derivative? Anyway, at least the collaboration was responsible for the biggest displacement production RB series engine. I find it amazing (and an indictment of GMH?) that fifteen years after the last VL was built it remains the only full-sized Holden to have ever had an OHC engine. :evil: Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

i cannot believe this discussion has been had: people in other forums will pointing to this and saying look at what these tossers are talking about ->just like we do

I didn't want to start a war between forums like has happened before, thats why i never said what forum it was. I just wanted to see if any of the NA leauge had come up against an XF in their travels and how it went. Also wanted to see if the VL knocked holden around like this guy said, because i've never heard of that before.

i didnt really read through all this crap, but im sure most people know that holden used the nissan motor because of gas emissions and they didnt have tiem to make a newer engine, so they got nissan to do it for them, and "apparently" at first people were a bit sceptical about buyign a holden with a foreign engine and then people started realising that they went like a f**kin rocket and sold like hotcakes. my mate had an xf, pulled up next to him in my vl n/a with extractors, exhaust, the xf had no chance, theyre a pile of crap, and im not just sayin that because they are ford, but because its true, i myself like a few fords, but imho xf's are sh*t. thankyou and goodnight.

yep falcon outsold the commodore for that one time ever during the vl's era so it had the crappest success as a commodore VL's are just bigger camira's nothing great but compared to an XF lol, all falc's of that box shape look like arse, EA-ED look no better either.. engine wise rb30>250... tho the ef/el six's are a great starting point for a turbo project, and if it wasn't for the BA being as decent as it is specially thanks for the turbo then im sure ford aus would be buried by now. and yes the mighty vn finally came with a nice torquey efi 6 and saved the day, i think the vn ss at the time was one of if not the most powerful four door productions sedans in the world at the time. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Keep it on topic guys. Thread cleaned. Theres nothing wrong with posting in old threads, keeps all the info on a certain topic in 1 place.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zanjara VN never saved holden at all the reason why the VL has an RB30 in is coz they need a motor and had nothing after the VK so they got the RB30 motor off nissan and dropped it in and hoped for the best and why is it that VL's where the best saleing car in australia??? Actually the RB30 was used because of the requirement to change to unleaded fuel and the Holden designed EFI 202 not being up to standard. Quote: Originally Posted by Zanjara Hmmm i think this is abit of a joke if an XF is better then what a VL is why dont you buy one?? i would like to see you blow heads left right and center coz thats what they use to do... Sounds exactly like what everyone says about VL's strangely enough. Quote: Originally Posted by OldF@rt Anyway, at least the collaboration was responsible for the biggest displacement production RB series engine. Are you forgetting the R31 Skyline that the RB30 was initially designed for?