Quote: Originally Posted by cwreck also-i dont understand why we dont produce ethanol on massive scale-we got the land to do it-we could grow to eat and grow to burn- Thanks Nick-- The reason is that there simply isn't enough facilities to produce ethanol in the quantities needed for fuel.

If you use 30-40% more fuel on it, what happens when you add the 30% odd extra power you can tune in to it? Will it be like 50-60% more fuel or does that take a power increase into consideration as well?

Quote: Originally Posted by cwreck also-i dont understand why we dont produce ethanol on massive scale-we got the land to do it-we could grow to eat and grow to burn- Nick-- We have the land to do it but not the water! Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 whats the go if you put half and half in a na injected car and don't thrash it? Was going to try my 2000 TJ magna cheers darren The air fuel ratios are different with E85 so your computer will have it all wrong. The car has to be tuned and have injectors capable of injecting about 40% more fuel. To make any car last with E85 you need to eliminate bare aluminium, magnesium and rubber in the fuel system as e85 is acidic. E85 is electrically conductive where as normal petrol isnt, you need a fuel pump that can handle it and is safe, no arcs etc. This is a big drawback!! Also E85 has a ron of 100-105, not 110+ as stated in the title. Using E85 in a petrol engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit of air to run the engine in comparison with petrol. E85 also has less energy per unit mass than petrol leading to less power in a petrol tuned engine. To make more power in a turbo car with e85 you need more fuel and boost than with petrol. It runs cooler in an engine than petrol because its putting out less power.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 Thats what i was thinking,ha,ha Found my E85 source today, was 99c a litre a SAFF on marion rd., whats the go if you put half and half in a na injected car and don't thrash it? Was going to try my 2000 TJ magna cheers darren I went to get some today and they wouldn't let me. It had a lock on it and they advised that it was illegal to sell. Did you actually fill up? The one near me has it as well but it's $1.35 Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

lol, why would you risk putting it in your car?

airbags, cheers but your not giving me the answer i really want , i know all about it, have probally been waiting for it a lot longer than most people,I started building my skyline motor 12 months ago for it. australia E85 does have 109 octane, your looking at americas Corned based E85 btw. I want to know specifics, not internet written stuff, someone that has actually tried it mixing it 50/50 in a a NA car, what did it do etc,How lean is it on part throttle etc, my family car nevers get more than 1/4 throttle, my wife drives like ms.daisy. I might do it and then put it on the dyno and log AFR's. The perishing thing doesn't bother me, i think half of it is scare tactics cheers darren

PM Dynowog or wait till he can repond in here. He has done alot of testing on E85, prob more than most.

, i'll do it once on a saturday (if they let me have it)anyway and go up the dyno for ****s and giggles, if it worked and you ran every second tank on straight premuim, it would wash away any **** anyway, thats all they do for methanol drag cars, run unleaded through them afterwards to flush them, same principle cheers darren

id be worried about the chemical reactions between ethanol and certain parts of the fuel system which would slowly take place overtime. When ethanol burns, water and co2 is produced, overtime that water would surely rust out your engine??

You think?, so the 700ml per minute i inject into my motor through my water injection system would rust it out then to if thats a sound theory cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 Thats what i was thinking,ha,ha Found my E85 source today, was 99c a litre a SAFF on marion rd., whats the go if you put half and half in a na injected car and don't thrash it? Was going to try my 2000 TJ magna cheers darren saff south australia's farmers federation is the biggest producer of enviro fuels in sa and soon aust if all goes to their plans can't remember if it was 32 servo's in sa and plans for 1 per week as soon as ethanol becomes legal Quote: Originally Posted by airbagsVL We have the land to do it but not the water! dw....true to an extent The air fuel ratios are different with E85 so your computer will have it all wrong. The car has to be tuned and have injectors capable of injecting about 40% more fuel. dw....yes it will require a tune and pre 1990 cars will tend to need new fuel lines and as such injectors and pumps should be fine To make any car last with E85 you need to eliminate bare aluminium, magnesium and rubber in the fuel system as e85 is acidic. dw....rubber yes but as all enviro fuel e85 comes with inhibitors its alloy safe i stress that personally i would not leave the car sitting with the fuel for prolonged periods as the inhibitors may breakdown over time so the trick is to turn the fuel over E85 is electrically conductive where as normal petrol isnt, you need a fuel pump that can handle it and is safe, no arcs etc. This is a big drawback!! dw....simply not true Also E85 has a ron of 100-105, not 110+ as stated in the title. dw....corn based aprox. 105, wheat based aprox. 110, sugar cane based aprox. 112 Using E85 in a petrol engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit of air to run the engine in comparison with petrol. dw....yes but you would be surprised at the ratio! E85 also has less energy per unit mass than petrol leading to less power in a petrol tuned engine. To make more power in a turbo car with e85 you need more fuel and boost than with petrol. dw....not necesarily so It runs cooler in an engine than petrol because its putting out less power. i love the science behind the last coment it runs cooler when run at stoich. to stoich. but not when run in lean burn mode! ill post more up soon Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 airbags, cheers but your not giving me the answer i really want , i know all about it, have probally been waiting for it a lot longer than most people,I started building my skyline motor 12 months ago for it. australia E85 does have 109 octane, your looking at americas Corned based E85 btw. dw....correct I want to know specifics, not internet written stuff, someone that has actually tried it dw....ask and you shall receive mixing it 50/50 in a a NA car, what did it do etc,How lean is it on part throttle etc, my family car nevers get more than 1/4 throttle, my wife drives like ms.daisy. dw....never tried any blends other than E10 & E85 but 50/50 was used for very breif testing I might do it and then put it on the dyno and log AFR's. dw....yes but you need to know what afr's to look for and its not what most think!!!!!! The perishing thing doesn't bother me, i think half of it is scare tactics dw....100% correct and just replace any rubber cheers darren keep up the questions Quote: Originally Posted by airbagsVL id be worried about the chemical reactions between ethanol and certain parts of the fuel system which would slowly take place overtime. When ethanol burns, water and co2 is produced, overtime that water would surely rust out your engine?? again the only thing i'd worry about is the inhibitor's breaking down! Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 You think?, so the 700ml per minute i inject into my motor through my water injection system would rust it out then to if thats a sound theory cheers darren lol lol lol Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

A the moment i have 700cc injectors and 2X bosch 984's. Theres enough fuel for 500rwkw on the dyno i use, 800cc would get the 550rwkwwhich i'm after on pump fuel on this dyno. With E85 i am guessing that i will need 6x1200cc injectors and the 2x 984's will definitly have to be replaced with 2 x 044's , your thoughts...? cheers darren

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 A the moment i have 700cc injectors and 2X bosch 984's. Theres enough fuel for 500rwkw on the dyno i use, 800cc would get the 550rwkwwhich i'm after on pump fuel on this dyno. With E85 i am guessing that i will need 6x1200cc injectors and the 2x 984's will definitly have to be replaced with 2 x 044's , your thoughts...? cheers darren how long is a peice of string? it is my experiance that with my tunes i get 1hp for every 3.2cc's of pulp and 4.5cc's of E85 but most other tuners quote 5cc's for pulp so your best asking your tuner as to how good he can get his tunes to be! with your specs i'd change your pumps and get an aeromotive and keep the 700cc injectors as if i were tuning it i calculate aprox. 500rwkw auto or 530rwkw manual otherwise just get 1000cc's and have heaps of head room

Quote: Originally Posted by jordy The reason is that there simply isn't enough facilities to produce ethanol in the quantities needed for fuel. Show me a map of australia and show me where there is no land or facilites to do it- in quantities-how many barrels are we talking about- are we talking about fueling australia or the world-if its the world i would say u are right- Thanks Nick--

Quote: Originally Posted by airbagsvl E85 is electrically conductive where as normal petrol isnt, you need a fuel pump that can handle it and is safe, no arcs etc. This is a big drawback!! dw....simply not true Whats not true??

u know what everyone's going to have they own view ethanol is very good back for your buck vs hp alternative- methanol would be better-but a bit more work and maintence how come we not talking about e98 also? thats even better- Thanks Nick--

yeh of course we will have our own views- i dont like the idea of having an electrically conductive fuel in a tank & fuel system that was built for a fuel that doesnt conduct electricity, just my view.

Quote: Originally Posted by airbagsVL E85 is electrically conductive where as normal petrol isnt, you need a fuel pump that can handle it and is safe, no arcs etc. This is a big drawback!! yeh of course we will have our own views- i dont like the idea of having an electrically conductive fuel in a tank & fuel system that was built for a fuel that doesnt conduct electricity, just my view. plastic can conduct electricity but you insulate your wires with it!!!!! water conducts electricity!!!! petrol conducts electricity!!!! the point is they both do so in such minute quantaties its not a problem!!!! had you have said ethanol is self oxygenating you would be excused for thinking it was not safe. facts: 1, both petrol and E85 can burn in a fuel pump 2, petrol is more likely to explode than E85 3, E85 will only oxygenate after ignition 4, meaning they will only burn if there is enough oxygen present please stick to stating facts or ask if unsure as your replies are misleading!

will it lead to accelerated electrolysis like in methanol fuel systems when using electronic pumps. (i.e. attacks the copper windings on electric pumps, the sole reason no electric pump manufacturer will promote the use of an electronic pump with methanol where the pump body comes in contact with the fuel).

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr Parts will it lead to accelerated electrolysis like in methanol fuel systems when using electronic pumps. (i.e. attacks the copper windings on electric pumps, the sole reason no electric pump manufacturer will promote the use of an electronic pump with methanol where the pump body comes in contact with the fuel). your comparing methanol with ethanol mixed with petrol and inhibitors not the same to me but happy to at actual data from tests if you have any?