Quote: Originally Posted by Epitaph So lucky there wasnt any other cars around! so true, could have been even worse

Condolences to the family, i live just down the road and yeah, they mustve been fair fanging it to loose it on that section of road. You can see the skid marks that lead to the tree, so they would have lost it a fair way up plenty, lost all four, then once they hit grass at that speed game over. If you dont trust the driver, dont get in. Simple. Your not a pussy if you dont get it. And if your mates egg you on to get it, then they arent your mates. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

yeah i also heard on the news he was 4 times the legal limit so now does this really become a hoon related offence or is it really a plain case of an overly intoxicated drink driving stupidity offence. obviously being the perfectly straight bit of road he was on alchohol is what would have had him bouncing off the kerbs and been the main cause of the accident.

sounds like both considering reports that prior someone was seen hanging out the window of the car while it was being driven at speed

Quote: Originally Posted by GMHBT1 yeah i also heard on the news he was 4 times the legal limit so now does this really become a hoon related offence or is it really a plain case of an overly intoxicated drink driving stupidity offence. obviously being the perfectly straight bit of road he was on alchohol is what would have had him bouncing off the kerbs and been the main cause of the accident. He was young and it's therefore a hoon offence as far as the media is concerned. If it were a 40 year old it wouldn't be slammed as hooning. I was listening to Eddy McGuire on the radio today and they were chatting about this. One guy rang up and said 'The answer is crushing cars and banning turbo, supercharged and V8 cars'. I rang up and actually got put into the hold line to be called up but they finished the topic unfortunately. This government needs a TOUGH new licensing system, driving courses, driving classes. Not just drive around the block, do a 3 point turn and press the screen on a hazard perception test. Make a license cost $2000 to buy. Who's going to risk losing it and having to buy another? I read one line in the paper that said 'giving these guys advanced driving courses will make them feel invincible on the street and more likely to be risky'. I suppose you're always going to get this knee jerk response when the media beat everything up and the extremists put down their uneducated thoughts of bandaid solutions.

In the end really it aint going to matter how old or new a car is and how safe it is these unessersary accidents are going to happen. Driver education wouldn't have mattered if he was that far over but just a tragic event in that the passengers should've known better than to get in with him. Driver shows off and thats it. No doubt some of us have done it but before and got lucky. But this lot didn't.

I've been saying it all along, if you want to stop things, increase the costs. What's a speeding fine these days. 250 dollars or so. Make that 2500 dollars, take away repayment schemes, if the person is employed they should be able to take 3/4 of their wage per week or something until it's paid off. If they're on the dole, no dole payments until the fine is paid. Repeat offence make that 2500 turn into 5000 with a 1 year licence cancellation. At the moment 12 points and <500 dollars for an average fine isn't enough of a threat to most people. I honestly don't care if I cop 2-3 points and a 250 dollar fine if I'm doing 10km/h over the limit. If it was 250 dollars for every km/h over I know I'd be doing the speed limit at all times.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bax I've been saying it all along, if you want to stop things, increase the costs. What's a speeding fine these days. 250 dollars or so. Make that 2500 dollars, take away repayment schemes, if the person is employed they should be able to take 3/4 of their wage per week or something until it's paid off. If they're on the dole, no dole payments until the fine is paid. Repeat offence make that 2500 turn into 5000 with a 1 year licence cancellation. At the moment 12 points and <500 dollars for an average fine isn't enough of a threat to most people. I honestly don't care if I cop 2-3 points and a 250 dollar fine if I'm doing 10km/h over the limit. If it was 250 dollars for every km/h over I know I'd be doing the speed limit at all times. i dont see that as being to wise a choice. could you imagine the jumps theft rates burglarys and all associated crimes going right up if people lose because of having to pay these super large fines and then even worse try to claim centrelink only to be told sorry not till you pay your fines. its not only that but imagine people unemployed people renting public housing etc cannot pay rents or put food on the table so they turn to crime when they get desperate. ok lock them up then you might say and ok fair enough but then its taxpayers money to house them so its like a big round circle really. my suggestion to this is to not let people under 21 drive any sort of v8 or turbocharged car or even a high performance non turbo version such as sv6 and also n/a xr6 etc. also all new p plater cars should be fitted with a 110kmh speed restrictor for the first 2 years of there licence to get a feel of the road before just jumping in and going full tilt. i know your going to say why 110. thats because thats what maximum highway speed is in victoria so that is the reason i said 110 and there is no need for them to exceed this whatsoever. if these p platers have been found to be breaking the law as in removing altering tampering or anything as such with these speed restrictors at all then they should have there licences suspended immediately no ifs no buts. ok ok now i know your going to say but what if there driving mum and dads car or another full licenced drivers car for any important reason then thats fine but if they get caught in that car doing anything more than a max of 5-10k over the 60k limit they should get immediate disqualification no ifs no buts. just a suggestion feel free if anybody else has anything on there mind.

I don't know if that's the solution baxter. It's quite easy to do 4km/h over and get snapped and there would be huge problems with issuing a $2500 fine for that. It's not going to stop people speeding, nothing is honestly. There's always going to be road deaths, the cars travel fast and people make mistakes. Technically if no one breaks a rule then there would be no deaths but fact is we're human and not robots. I think if the license was much harder to get via training and education then you would be much better trained in a motor vehicle and be able to better handle situations. Now I know this would not have solved the crash we're discussing because the guy made a chain of fatal decisions for him and his friends. I'm talking general for the accidents that are driving error, driver attitude. I can't see why we dont have a DECA training system with a 10 week course or something like that which involves class time and practical driving time with professionals to educate people about driving and vehicles. At the moment you get your average driver / young mum who thinks that brakes mean stop, and turning the steering wheel means you'll go around the corner without understanding how components work in certain conditions. I just don't think that restricting people to the point of being optionless is the way to get a lower road toll. At work we have years of ongoing training with many safety measures involved to lower accidents. With our roads all you need is a license pass, a few speeding fines, maybe the car crushing threat and there's no problems! Fining someone won't stop them speeding. I've written many letters to newspapers, police etc but no one seem's to do anything about it.

are new drivers in nsw resricted to 80kmh? maybe that needs to happen in vic... there were alot of contributing factors in this case and its is always going to happen no matter what laws are put in place but maybe not as often

PROGMH I agree with the idea that driving courses and driving lessons should be compulsory, also the "advanced driving" course should be compulsory as well before even going for a license. In the advanced driving course they put you in real situations and teach you how to control your car and valuable techniques that may even save a life. But nothing is going to stop road tolls as has already been said, this story is just too horrific to even read.

to the people who say `ban turbo and super charged and v8 and blah blah` that is still not goin to work, u can speed in every car as people have already said, as sad as it is people are always goin to be show offs and always going to try and push the limits, thats life. its sad that some people learn the hard way like these 6 and many others, i no of people who r paralized from driving accidents from speeding but yet years on they still speed, sadly i think this issue will never be resovled.

Quote: Originally Posted by PROGMH I don't know if that's the solution baxter. It's quite easy to do 4km/h over and get snapped and there would be huge problems with issuing a $2500 fine for that. It's not going to stop people speeding, nothing is honestly. There's always going to be road deaths, the cars travel fast and people make mistakes. Technically if no one breaks a rule then there would be no deaths but fact is we're human and not robots. I think if the license was much harder to get via training and education then you would be much better trained in a motor vehicle and be able to better handle situations. Now I know this would not have solved the crash we're discussing because the guy made a chain of fatal decisions for him and his friends. I'm talking general for the accidents that are driving error, driver attitude. I can't see why we dont have a DECA training system with a 10 week course or something like that which involves class time and practical driving time with professionals to educate people about driving and vehicles. At the moment you get your average driver / young mum who thinks that brakes mean stop, and turning the steering wheel means you'll go around the corner without understanding how components work in certain conditions. I just don't think that restricting people to the point of being optionless is the way to get a lower road toll. At work we have years of ongoing training with many safety measures involved to lower accidents. With our roads all you need is a license pass, a few speeding fines, maybe the car crushing threat and there's no problems! Fining someone won't stop them speeding. I've written many letters to newspapers, police etc but no one seem's to do anything about it. i agree with progmh and also well said. a good mate of mine that i work with was a good freind with the driver. my point of view in this case it`s clear alcohol took its toll on the driver, the toxacolagic report said his alcohol reading was .19, which is nearly four times the limit for a p plater. how is someone going to be able to control even a diahatsu charade with that kind of alcohol in his system let alone a powerful car like a xr6. the law has been created for as reason not just to make it tough for us for no reason, u break the law and u have to pay for it and in this case it`s so sads that the driver had to pay for it with his life and the lifes of 4 others. my condolences go out to all the family`s. let this be a lesson for all of us with our poweful/normal cars out there. no matter how good of a driver people think they are it just takes a split sencond to loose control and pay the consequence. street racing is so common these day, i take my vl out for a drive every now and again and i can swear every second performance car that comes next to me u can see that they are reving it or dropping a gear down because they want to race, i just ignore them because it`s not worth 5 seconds of fun compared to the risk`s out there for speeding and indangering inoccent lifes. please guys take it easy out there, i drive past this crash site every day and it gives me shivers down my spine just to think about the serverity of the crash and 5 people`s life lost......

advanced driver courses will make many think they are even more invincible than they think they already are The problem is an inability by young drivers to make smart and informed decisions. Apparently that part of the human brain develops sometime in the early 20's I therefore suggest raising the licence age to early 20's, by that stage more people have the ability to make informed decisions about their driving

There is one way that MIGHT get through to atleast some of them. Take them to the Orthopedics Ward at either the Alfred or Royal Melbourne, show them what happens after the Impact . I had to go in there myself to vist my Brother after a Dirtbike acco, Christ what a depressing place that is, my hats off to the Doctors and Nurses who put us back together . It wont stop every one but i can garrantee it would make a few stop and think. Chris Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by B.D.R There is one way that MIGHT get through to atleast some of them. Take them to the Orthopedics Ward at either the Alfred or Royal Melbourne, show them what happens after the Impact . I had to go in there myself to vist my Brother after a Dirtbike acco, Christ what a depressing place that is, my hats off to the Doctors and Nurses who put us back together . It wont stop every one but i can garrantee it would make a few stop and think. Chris Chris i've been heavily involved with crash prevention programs and their development specifically targeting young drivers sadly visits to hospitals etc have zero effect on the group that you want it to work on there are many theories and programs that try differing ways to influence young driver behaviour, each claims success but there's no one simple answer plus it's near on impossible to prove whether a program or regulation change is solely responsible for a reduction in the road toll Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

ok. seems the discussion has veered waay off of topic. if the guy was smashed and .19 is smashed... then no matter how good a driver is he wasn't going to be able to control the vehicle. unluckily for him he also made the decision to speed excessively and what may have been a low speed gutter scrape turned into 4 lives. and yes this is technically a hoon offence as when the laws were introduced their purpose was to prosecute excessive speeders and the majority of hoon cases are still excessive speeds. so in the laws definition this is a hoon offence however in our eyes this should be considered a DUI offence solely.

mitch 7 and a half drinks really isnt that much man yes it is way over the legal limit but its not like super pissed

Quote: Originally Posted by B.D.R There is one way that MIGHT get through to atleast some of them. Take them to the Orthopedics Ward at either the Alfred or Royal Melbourne, show them what happens after the Impact . I had to go in there myself to vist my Brother after a Dirtbike acco, Christ what a depressing place that is, my hats off to the Doctors and Nurses who put us back together . It wont stop every one but i can garrantee it would make a few stop and think. Chris i agree, detailed images and watch a few surgeries where peoples faces have been caved in or limbs mangled beyond recognition i visited a mate in the neuro ward after he crashed his bike pretty heavily and it made me feel sick in the stomach if it changes the attitude of one person thats alot to account for on a 350ish people road toll per year Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by NEOLDEN are new drivers in nsw resricted to 80kmh? maybe that needs to happen in vic... there were alot of contributing factors in this case and its is always going to happen no matter what laws are put in place but maybe not as often Do you understand how dangerous it is when you come up behind some **** sitting on 80km/h on a 100km/h fwy? I've almost seen people been rear-ended that many times. It's a scary sight. If they were going to put speed limiters in, it would have to be at 110km/h. Even then I still don't agree with it. It's not going to save lives. On the news last night, they said he blew .19 BAC, then jumped STRAIGHT to how he had a high performance vehicle, and he was 'hooning' and that they should crush cars. Absolutely ridiculous. As PROGMH said before, it wouldn't be considered hooning if the guy was 40yrs old. "hooning" has nothing to do with this. He was at .19BAC. he had FIVE PASSENGERS! Regardless of what car he was driving, it's an absolute recipe for disaster, and quite disgusting. I've always maintained the mantra that if you drink or take drugs and get into a car to drive, you have to be willing to die or kill someone else. It's one of the stupidest things you can do. And to be driving at those sort of speeds WITH an overloaded car and smashed off your head.. I mean come on.. does anyone even have common sense anymore? Quote: Originally Posted by aus880 advanced driver courses will make many think they are even more invincible than they think they already are The problem is an inability by young drivers to make smart and informed decisions. Apparently that part of the human brain develops sometime in the early 20's I therefore suggest raising the licence age to early 20's, by that stage more people have the ability to make informed decisions about their driving Are you being sarcastic? Because if not, that's kind of scary you would even think that. How many guys in their early 20s do you know that hammer down princes hwy every friday night? ALOT. Just because you're 1 year older (this kid was 19), doesn't mean you now have the 'maturity and experience' to make informed decisions about your driving. How would you expect someone to know what an informed decision is if they've just got their Ps at 20? Quote: Originally Posted by ANK mitch 7 and a half drinks really isnt that much man yes it is way over the legal limit but its not like super pissed To who? Weight and tollerance definately come into it. I know people who can't walk after 4 cruisers. 7 1/2 might be able to get some kids blind. You just don't know.