Quote: Originally Posted by MrSquigle just trying to get my head arounf this. if you run a cooler and water injection befor the turbo wouldnt the water just pool inside the intercooler? No. Because its a mist spray, that is forced into the inlet manifold with air. So therefore coolling the inlet charge temperature. EDIT: you beat me to it exchaser

Quote: Originally Posted by MrSquigle just trying to get my head arounf this. if you run a cooler and water injection befor the turbo wouldnt the water just pool inside the intercooler? No the water is held in suspension due to it turning to steam in the compressor, then the air speed is also there too, enough combined with the small nature of the droplet size that it simply stays in suspension all the way on its journey to the combustion chamber where it does its magical work. I write about it in detail on the links Darren gave to you earlier *suggest if you got time to go read them* To see how fine the suspension is all you need to do is look at my site where I have a real basic vid showing showing droplet suspension in free air it is an engineering marvel water injection honestly........ real smart people won the war with it and its used in all forms or engines still today from gas turbines to diesels. I even supplied some units to a super truck team in NZ. Did you boys know the first Group A Touring car championship won by the Turbocharged Volvo of Robbie Frascevic here in 1985 was done on WATER INJECTION http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh11...olvo_specs.htm (http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/group_a_volvo_specs.htm) Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

So Rice, what price would I be looking at for the complete kit, tank and all? PM if you like brad

If anyone is interested for their own application best to e-mail me or call .. it's hard keeping up with all the forums, though I would drop in here on Darren's recommendation (over 3 months ago now). Peter

this sounds really good. what happens with water injection does it only kick in at a certain boost level or does it run all the time? approx how long would your water last befor running out?

Quote: Originally Posted by exchaser hahah PSIWOG - abosolute dik n balls slurper pro tuner... owner of some of the worlds most talked about vls.. by the sounds of it.. lol.. so many pics of his cars all over the net that they are just too cool for this thread, obviously. That aside, good thread to have a read. It's a shame the above mentioned **** smoker has spoilt it with his bull**** ravings. A mod should delete, wink wink. Would like to go down this path pretty soon, when setup correctly, as detailed throughout this thread, the gains are unreal. Darren how much does ur car weigh? and are u still running a pretty basic suspension setup in the rear end/stock ? can't remember weight, it was a bit of a heffer though and heavier than a calais turbo from memory. kings superlows in the front, 90/10's that don't work properly yet as i need stock front springs with my 280zx steering knuckles( made it lower again and doens't transfer weight at all) rear: adjustable upper control arms, kings superlows that are chopped aswell, hard kyb sport shocks..total mismatch atm..lol, but will probally just put stock springs all the way around and a big back sway bar with, some type of different shock at the back( any ideas? 50/50?)Taking air con and **** out at the moment,never used the air-con anyway, even on 35+ degree days.

http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm ^ I have real nice read on a pretty important part of history (first link on my web page)... take your time and read through it, very graphic example of literally how the WW2 air war was won with the power of water injection... the story is still applicable 100% today. Important link notes: Turbo charged piston aero engine 24psi max pre WI 73+psi with WI From 2000bhp to over 3800bhp!!!!!! on the same motor and WI was the secret (100 hour test durations) WI and NEVER BLEW AN ENGINE! 100/130 Octane fuel used Read the blokes greatest accomplishments of his life "Marrying Judy & Water Injection" http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...b-160grade.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/p-51b-160grade.pdf) This is some really great reading! Air plane though it applies so well to you and your car in terms of octane fuel tests and also the amazing gains in performance using water injection on top of any fuel type ! (hahaha boost pressures are pretty similar too). Real world testing shows it all. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/1...rade-fuel.html (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html) 100/150 Octane in 1943, boost it up bro ! 25psi Water Injection solved all of these problems Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

You too can Get On It! no more piss weak excuses..... like "Its too hot bro" OR "No C16 bro" leave that to the homosexuals and be a real man! bahahahahah, I just fell of my chair laughing, funny kent! cheers darern

hahahah.. i look at your 10.21@140.89mph on pump fuel, and that makes me laugh... not cause im taking the piss, but just because its so funny to be able to tell people u can roll out that kinda mph after filling up at caltex HAHAHAHA (or wherever u get ur juice) I think this may be step for a 9 second pass... without really changing too much on the setup.

Mr Squigle, Too many variables for a one size fit's all answer. Usually, the rice racing setup will kick in at 10psi. Rice told me that a 3 litre tank is a good place to start. Could last for a 1/2 tank, depends on how much self control you have.

http://www.savagesquadron.com/USpage...rbolt_P47D.htm (http://www.savagesquadron.com/USpage/USFighters/Thunderbolt_P47D.htm) ^ The toughest turbo plane of WW2 ! Same motor tested to 3800BHP ! on water injection, check out the turbo system layout below http://www.aviation-history.com/republic/p47.html http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...485/P-47M.html (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/9485/P-47M.html) "During durability testing of the C series R-2800 by Republic, it was decided to find out at what manifold pressure and carburetor temperature detonation could be induced. They ran the engine at extreme boost pressures that produced 3,600 hp! But wait, it gets even more amazing. They ran it at 3,600 hp for 250 hours, without any failure! This, with common 100/130 avgas. No special fuels were used. Granted, the engines were completely worn out, but survived without a single component failure. Try that with Rolls Royce Merlin or Allison V-1710. Fuels Of at least equal importance to all other areas of actual engine development is the development of fuels. During WWI, pilots noticed that gasoline refined from Romanian crude oil, ran better than that refined from California crude. After the war, an investigation of this phenomenon revealed that “bad” gasoline caused the engine to detonate. Detonation is a condition in which the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder burns explosively rather than smoothly. It was further discovered that pure iso-octane, a gasoline constituent of a certain molecular structure, was about the best that could be had. Hence, the Octane rating system was born. Early gasoline was between 25 and 50 octane. Combinations of poor cooling, high compression ratios (the ratio of cylinder volume at the top and bottom of the piston stroke), and/or excessive supercharging lead to detonation, often with disastrous results. In the late twenties it was learned that the addition of tetraethyl lead to gasoline drastically improved its octane rating, so much in fact that it was better than isooctane. Fuels that test better than iso-octane are rated with Performance Numbers (PN) These improved fuels, often as high as 145 PN, allowed higher compression ratios and higher supercharger pressures which resulted in doubling or trebling of engine power. It is interesting to note that the Allison and Rolls-Royce engines used in WWII Allied fighters got about the same horsepower from around 1700 cubic inches that German engines got from 2600 cubic inches. This was almost entirely due to use of 115/145 PN aviation gasoline in Allied aviation engines verses the 80-90 octane German fuels. 10 Toward the middle of World War II, another technology came on the scene that further improved engine takeoff horsepower ratings. This was Anti-Detonation Injection, or ADI. ADI was simply a pump that during extreme power conditions such as take-off, injected a mixture of water and alcohol into the induction system. The alcohol was primarily to prevent freezing of the water. ADI greatly improved detonation margin, but since it consumed large quantities of water (which is heavy), it was typically only used during take-off or for short times in combat." Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

do you have anymore information on the use of this in formula 1 ?

Quote: Originally Posted by exchaser do you have anymore information on the use of this in formula 1 ? I have a tone of it, but it fails to deliver anything like the level of engineering used in Aviation. Renault and Ferrari used very low level (in terms of qty injected) water injection systems, and their power level increases were very low as a net result. Water Injection was banned after 1986 season in F1, it was only in use in F1 from 1983 firstly by Ferrari then followed by Renault... 3 years later banned ! Soon after 1983 many teams went to chemical fuel which let them do similar things, while others were still using doctored AVGAS (blended AVGAS to meet pump fuel test procedure/rules). Aviation examples really are the trend setters here and especially the first article I posted about Frank Walker.... this stuff really is the ultimate in mechanical engineering and shows just how much can be done with water injection... I have other articles that really you need to have an engineering formal qualification to understand fully but they show in explicit detail the prodigious power available via full implementation of water injection on gasoline turbocharged engines. The figures are nothing short of mind blowing ! Just like Sir Harry Ricardo found 30 years before them you can get so much power from Water that you will exceed the capacity of the equipment you have to measure it! nothing will come close to what you can achieve with water. (that aviation example is case in point ~2000bhp and 22psi to over 73psi boost and 3800bhp! all on same 100/130 AVGAS, with superior reliability compared to engines running high octane fuel alone). I put this up in as best layman terms I can so a broad audience can follow but more so to teach the ignorant and opinionated type crap talkers... they range from day to day ****heads of the likes of forum dwellers to shop owners and even book authors like Corky Bell !! Total dumb arses need to learn and pay respect to the proven engineering, that has been in the world for around a century now. Hope you boys find it of use to you ? and may it shut down the morons once and for all Quote: Originally Posted by pmac I stumbled across this, might be some interesting reading for anyone considering water injection http://www.streetcommodores.com/imag...102%20POWR.pdf (http://www.streetcommodores.com/images/tech/PDF/099-102%20POWR.pdf) ^ That's exactly the kind of moronic simpleton who should be writing articles for TV week rather than a magazine (that's is stupid enough to call him a technical contributor and pay money for rubbish like that) Pigeon's like this are best ignored No technical qualifications, No idea of subject matter, No brains full stop! Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by exchaser hahahah.. i look at your 10.21@140.89mph on pump fuel, and that makes me laugh... not cause im taking the piss, but just because its so funny to be able to tell people u can roll out that kinda mph after filling up at caltex HAHAHAHA (or wherever u get ur juice) I think this may be step for a 9 second pass... without really changing too much on the setup. BP or boost 98 Ha,ha you should have drove it , now i want as close to 150mph as possible..... , probally not possible but worth a shot cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: That's exactly the kind of moronic simpleton who should be writing articles for TV week rather than a magazine (that's is stupid enough to call him a technical contributor and pay money for rubbish like that) It's street commodores magazine...he's right at home writing for it. Quote: do it right and go for an intercooler DER...lol

ill ask in here so its info everyone can digest... i've got a 2jz-ge that im going to turbo after lowering compression as stock compression is 10:1 with most VLT builds i would assume compression is around 8.5:1, with the 'safe' boost limit being around 20-25psi before pulling timing, which would be a similar story with the 2jz. so with the water injection this 'safe' limit is raised considerably with the ability to run increased timing... how high could base compression be before hindering total boost made? im thinking of running 9:1-9.5:1 compression with around 20-25psi, but finding it impossible to find any info on whether this will work or not. i dont really have a power goal in mind, but i guess it would be 400-450rwkw. so if it takes less boost to make that power combined with the higher comp and the water injection, then thats just a bonus! in a stock compression 2jz with no water injection and a decent sized turbo, it would take around 25-28 psi to achieve that power.. any thoughts?

been speaking with peter from rice, im getting a kit for mine. ill report back with my results

Quote: Originally Posted by 7FOUR7 been speaking with peter from rice, im getting a kit for mine. ill report back with my results half of calaisturbo.com bought a kit..lol, there hopefully going to be results coming out our arses soon cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

wow i actually read a thread on calais turbo that was useful. Thanks for the read makes a lot more sense to me now on how it all works.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jet R31 half of calaisturbo.com bought a kit..lol, there hopefully going to be results coming out our arses soon cheers darren Got a car on the dyno hopefully on Sunday so we should be able to see some solid results. Mine has cooked the engine before we could tune it, so im out for quite a while. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.