i dunno, have you seen an rb20det with the head off before? The pistons are TINY, that would explain why the things don't make enough torque down low to spin up a biggish turbo with any kind of low down response, sure they rev alot to make up for it, but that's not an excuse for a street car. In a VL it's even worse, the diff ratios do the things no favours- and lets be honest, the kind of people who put rb20dets in VLs are obviously looking to do things on the absolute cheap with little regard to the actual performance of the vehicle, so alot of the time they don't bother to spend the time/money/effort to do the swap over to 4.11s, which would bring them a little closer to the ratios in r32s which i believe are even shorter? The rb20 is an OK motor for the money (we've moved them on for under $900 with a gearbox in the past, it was that hard to sell the things), but you can't compare them to a 25, 26 or 30- they simply aren't playing ball in the same league.

well i dno who would compare rb20s to others... but yeah :/ ive seen some make decent power with stock internals and theyd be fun to drive on the streets, reving the guts outta it.. then the boost finally comes on lol but umm yeah, as far as reliability etc, i'd beleive the rb20 would be more reliable than a rb30?? both std, yes no? Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

both engines are now very old so neither are a sure thing, if you really wanted to sacrifice performance for reliability why buy a turbo car in the first place? Power is one thing, i'm more talking about driveability, you can run a monster turbo on anything and make a good peak power figure, but that doesn't tell half the story of what the vehicle would be like to drive.

Quote: Originally Posted by aquabat My Clubsport blows away R33's with full 3" exhaust systems, intercooler setup and 14psi all the time. As for making power, well if you acctually read what I said above, and realised it's also on the SAU forums. Jason. but would you win on a circuit? doubtful. its not all about straight line speed....to some people i guess it is.

who knows, no one really goes on the circuit anyway (even those with skylines).. so i don't think that matters? Skylines feel nice and are more direct to drive, i think that matters though. Someone on NS said it best, import people at first will argue bang for buck- then in the face of defeat go for the handling aspect, then as one last ditch effort- when all is lost, they will bring out the build quality debate.

Quote: Originally Posted by pmac but would you win on a circuit? doubtful. its not all about straight line speed....to some people i guess it is. Probably a Clubsport against a budget R33 GTSt, which seems to be most popular against the young fella's wanting 'bang for buck'. They are very ordinary. People spend thousands of dollars on suspension compenents in R33's to get them to handle anything close to on rails, or like a GTR, and they still don't compare. Stock R33's have more body roll then stock VL's. If I wanted a circuit car I wouldn't bother with a Skyline anyway, I'd just get an Evo. You are not wrong Jack, it always comes out in that EXACT order. Jason.

it wouldnt be that hard to set a R33 up so it handles well... i have no idea where u got that info from :/ i spose theyre that bad that no1 uses them in drifting all around the world... hrmmmm, food for thought... not to mention the amount of sh*t available from japan for suspension, jesus christ! the amount of stuff available sh*ts on what u can get for our "local" cars.

Where I got what infomation from. It wouldn't take much to setup a Commodore to handle well either. I said R33 GTST's don't handle that well in STOCK form. I think you completely missed the point of the post. Jason.

Quote: Originally Posted by aquabat I think you completely missed the point of the post. Jason. The point? oh yeah, that a factory hotted up clubsport could out-handle a much cheaper std skyline with 16inch rims errrrr.... Whatever way you look at it and given some kind of level playing field, compare a similarly priced HSV to a Skyline of the same year, (VS?) or even a VX against a similarly priced/optioned skyline 6 years older. The "sportscar" of the 2 is more a drivers car than the "taxi". I love late model commodores too, but c'mon, lets not kid ourselves. Better brakes, suspension, weight distribution, steering, lower centre of gravity, diff...all aspects of the car are also easily improved upon. Given a modified ecu, breathing mods and some boost. There is no easier and more cost effective way of getting an enjoyable, lightweight 350hp-400hp street car than a skyline or similar. Quote: Originally Posted by genki bah 99% of rb25 powered r33's on the street have the mods u mentioned and theyre pissweak, and would be lucky to consistantly hit 13.9second 400m times ) 99% are also effectively limited by the stock ecu to around 180rwkw. 14psi means nothing if the tune retards the timing and dumps fuel in at high AFM readings Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by aquabat Probably a Clubsport against a budget R33 GTSt, which seems to be most popular against the young fella's wanting 'bang for buck'. They are very ordinary. People spend thousands of dollars on suspension compenents in R33's to get them to handle anything close to on rails, or like a GTR, and they still don't compare. Stock R33's have more body roll then stock VL's. If I wanted a circuit car I wouldn't bother with a Skyline anyway, I'd just get an Evo. You are not wrong Jack, it always comes out in that EXACT order. Jason. thats what i was on about. u can get 33's to be stiff as all fu*k... and it doesnt cost "thousands" or dollars but on the subject of "handling" imo a holden will never handle as well as an import, ever. Quote: Originally Posted by VLT-025 The point? oh yeah, that a factory hotted up clubsport could out-handle a much cheaper std skyline with 16inch rims errrrr.... Whatever way you look at it and given some kind of level playing field, compare a similarly priced HSV to a Skyline of the same year, (VS?) or even a VX against a similarly priced/optioned skyline 6 years older. The "sportscar" of the 2 is more a drivers car than the "taxi". i concur Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by VLT-025 The "sportscar" of the 2 is more a drivers car than the "taxi". Skylines are used as Taxi's in Japan. I personally, don't see many commodore taxi's. Most tend to lean towards Camry's, etc etc. genki, you can get a Commodore to have suspension stiff as f*ck aswell, but it's going to cost you just as much (yes, thousands) as doing this process to a Skyline, to make it handle better. Personally, I'd just rather the Commodore with stock suspension because it will be quicker over the 400m and what you lose out on the corners, you will probably make up on the straights. You have completely misunderstood what I said. Jason. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by genki imo a holden will never handle as well as an import, ever. Shouldn't you be too busy out racing on the circuit to be arguing points like this? ..oh, wait- that's right lol A Skyline may be able to "out handle" say a Clubby (that seems to be the current argument), but the fact is the Clubby with a little work will still handle far better than any human needs ON THE STREET, and that anything above that can only be used in rashly irrisponsible ways on the road- so is only really of benifit to wannabe street racers flying around blind suburban corners or genuine circuit racing enthusiasts. Handling isn't like biggish power- you can use big power on the street every now and then (not full throttle all gears wheelspinning 140km/h+ of course) and be safe as you can see what is ahead of you- you can't tell if there's a kid playing in the middle of the road around that next bend.

I can't believe you just said that it's safer to have a powerful car than one that handles....

skylines are for little boy racers that think a fast car will get a girl... commodores are for people that done need to get a girl because they come to them. fair enough you can push a riceline to 250-300 kw, but be realistic REMOVE THE TURBO make it fair? n/a vs n/a

Quote: Originally Posted by MaD_WoG skylines are for little boy racers that think a fast car will get a girl... commodores are for people that done need to get a girl because they come to them. Quote: Originally Posted by MaD_WoG fair enough you can push a riceline to 250-300 kw, but be realistic REMOVE THE TURBO make it fair? n/a vs n/a How does that work? Clearly we're off topic here. I guess the answer to the original question is related mainly to image. So many people who let that sh*t bother them here. If you try and argue that people dislike them 'because they're ****' you're a F*ckwit Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by VLT-025 I can't believe you just said that it's safer to have a powerful car than one that handles.... i said it's safer to use power on the street than to use extreme handling. Going fast around a corner (unless you have x-ray vision) is always going to be more dangerous than having a powerful straight line car on the street (unless you are a moron trying to clock the thing out at like 140km/h+ etc)

Haha, after all these arguments that are for and against Skylines, i wonder what RB30DEVL still thinks about them, wether to get one or not! LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by MaD_WoG REMOVE THE TURBO make it fair? n/a vs n/a natrually we would compare the turbo to the 5litre so the turbo stays on hehe Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

V8s are cool but for a daily driver I would go with the Skyline. Don't worry about what others think. If you like them, buy one.

Quote: Originally Posted by MaD_WoG skylines are for little boy racers that think a fast car will get a girl... commodores are for people that done need to get a girl because they come to them. fair enough you can push a riceline to 250-300 kw, but be realistic REMOVE THE TURBO make it fair? n/a vs n/a what kinda comment is that?? jesus christ. the u better be refering to GTSt's and not GTR's... lol and removing the turbo part?? what the fu*k? thats like me going on to say - "remove the 8 cylinders... and the amount of ltrs an engine has" get real... ffs