I would like to know the overall effect on valves. I just can't get over the fact of placing a sugar brand fuel into the car. But then again I found a useful technical article. Looking for more power? It's as easy as filling up with some racing fuel... Isn't it? 'High Octane' is a phrase that conjures up images of fast cars. It's also a phrase that is bandied around by nearly all of the petrol companies in advertising slogans, along with products described as 'ultimate', 'racing' and 'extreme'. So, high-octane petrol must be the fuel of choice if I want my car to go faster... After all, petrol companies refer to 'improved performance and acceleration' and race cars use it -- it must have a performance advantage! Not necessarily... Let's have a look at what an octane rating is and what it does. In Australia petrol uses an octane rating called RON (Research Octane Number). The RON number is achieved from the results of lab tests in which the fuel is run through a test engine which varies its compression ratio under controlled conditions. The results of the test are compared to results for a mixture of iso-octane and n-heptane. For example, if a fuel is found to perform in a similar way to a mixture of 95 per cent iso-octane and 5 per cent n-heptane, it is given the rating of 95 RON. When a fuel mixture is compressed there is a point at which the extreme heat and pressure will make the fuel explode, or spontaneously combust. This is the process that diesel engines rely on. However, in a petrol engine the point of combustion is controlled and the fuel mixture is ignited by the spark plug. Basically a high RON fuel will have a higher resistance to pre-ignition (also called knocking or pinking or pinging). This is because the higher octane rating means that the fuel has a high activation energy. In other words the fuel needs to be subjected to more extreme conditions before an explosion will occur, either by high levels of compression or high engine temperatures. So will high octane fuel give a car better performance? Let's look at the case of a normal road car. Most road cars have a recommended octane number of the fuel which should be used. The compression that takes place in the combustion chamber and the internal engine temperatures while running are suited to work efficiently with the recommended fuel rating. If a lower octane fuel is used then it's possible that some problems may occur. Pre-ignition (also known by the terms noted above) can damage the engine internals in the worst cases. If a higher octane fuel is used what happens? Well, nothing. The engine is already able to perform at its highest efficiency on the recommended fuel. The extra octane rating has no effect. So why do high performance cars or racing cars use high octane fuels? This is because their engines are designed to take advantage of the properties of high octane fuels. High-performance road cars tend to make their extra power from generating higher pressures in the combustion chambers of the engine, either by having high compression ratios or by using turbo or superchargers. To avoid pre-ignition due to the high pressures, high octane fuels are used and, in the case of road cars, recommended by the manufacturers. What clouds the issue is some of the 'smarter' engine management systems used by car manufacturers today. As well as being able to measure when pre-ignition occurs and alter the ignition timing, boost (in turbocharged cars) and other factors to stop it, these engines can also 'tune' themselves up to take advantage of the extra octane rating and potentially make more power. One example of this is Saab's Bio Power turbo fours. By taking advantage of the higher octane number of ethanol rich fuels such as E85 (85 per cent ethanol, 15 per cent petrol), the turbocharged 2.0-litre engine offered in the 9-3 Sport Sedan increases its turbo-boost and tweaks ignition timing automatically to increase its claimed output from 129kW/265Nm on normal fuel to 147kW/300Nm on E85. Okay, but if the octane rating typically doesn't improve performance, why do premium fuels claim better power and acceleration? Well, such improvements are possible, not because of the octane rating, but because the chemical composition of the fuel may be capable of producing more power. It's a matter of how much 'bang' each drop of fuel contains. Looking at the chemistry of the fuels in question, Carbon-to-Carbon bonds actually contain more energy than Carbon-to-Hydrogen bonds. Therefore a fuel which contains more Carbon-to-Carbon bonds will give more power, regardless of the octane rating. It's more likely that a premium brand fuel will contain more Carbon-to-Carbon bonds and boast a high octane rating. So yes... Premium fuel with an octane rating higher than recommended by the car manufacturer may well be able to improve the performance of your car, but it's not necessarily because of the high octane rating... The myth 'High Octane fuel will make a car faster' is therefore -- Busted. http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season1-video/episode-10-now-online-the-fuel-test?utm_source=HPF+Group+Magazine+List&utm_campai gn=d866102f18-mc_ep9&utm_medium=email (http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season1-video/episode-10-now-online-the-fuel-test?utm_source=HPF+Group+Magazine+List&utm_campaign=d866102f18-mc_ep9&utm_medium=email)

Quote: Originally Posted by sticks lol ank u wont need the external just wack on 3x044s and it will be plenty. How much power is 3x044's supporting?, Looks like they have just opened up a new servo with e85 again in adelaide, so won't have to entertain the idea of buying drums, coudn't be ****ed doing that at all, would just use 98 cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

whats stoich for e85? 10:1 or a little richer?

^^^^ Stoich ratio 9.7:1 I hear rumours of it gumming up pumps, injectors etc, especially if not started reguarly, any truth to this or is it just old schoolers spreading rubbush?

by gumming up you mean eating it away Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Yeah I've evening heard the E85 dries out rubbers and seals, is that true?

Quote: Originally Posted by HTURBO Yeah I've evening heard the E85 dries out rubbers and seals, is that true? for a car not designed to run on e85 ethanol, id say its probly true, thats why you use braided lines and pumps/regs designed for alcohol short term use should be fine, just run some standard fuel through afterwards (which will require a different map to run ) if you can afford to run e85, u can afford to get parts that support it.

all my seals etc are fine although i have braided lines and alchohol capable injectors etc. i drive mine once or twice a week. mine is on a very mild e85 tune with 22psi in it and the tuners said when i get a proper boost controller we will push it a bit harder and have no problems screwing 27+psi into it. its 99c a litre by the way, cheap as Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

wat servos sell it in sydney

99c/L is awsome. Im paying $1.35 for BP ultimate

Everything has been pretty much covered through the two e85 threads. Read through them and do some home work if your considering using it. Personally, I've have found it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Keep in mind that petrol companies would not be happy if more people started using it. Hence, a lot of the negative crap that has been said about e85 is to keep us ignorant. I have used it for 6 months or so now. So what harmful effects to the car ? Errr..it's harder to start. That's it. Fuel lines are fine with absolutely nil breakdown of rubber. Best to start with new rubber lines if using e85 though as the cleaning properties may pick up bits of crap from years of use. Same with fuel filter after the first couple of tanks. Spark plugs don't have carbon all over them and look clean with the right colour. Car doesn't spew carbon out when you start it, if anything a little bit of water cause it's not a daily. Once you have spent the money to do it properly, e85 is race fuel for the street. Who doesn't want to make more power,run cooler,clean engine,clean fuel system and save the environment ? Availability will be an ongoing issue for a while due to the oil companies keeping it at bay until the environmental situation demands it be readily available. Having said that, 20ltr fuel containers are on sale($14.99) at autobahn in vic until Sunday the 1/11/09. Quote: Originally Posted by HTURBO Yeah I've evening heard the E85 dries out rubbers and seals, is that true? When you get water in the fuel system. People may use metho to dry it out which is very similar to e85. So yeah, there is a grain of truth there. However, don't believe it's to the point of being an issue due to the hydrospcopic properties of e85. I use flash lube for piece of mind.

you cant get e85 from any servo in syd u have to get from refinery in 200ltr drums or et racing fuels in syd its $70 for 20l drum but he makes it using his 106 octane race fuel so he claims i think he has e85 with nitro mix aswell

you can get it from united servo in rozelle.

you can buy 100% ethyl alcohol from a chemical supplier in 20L drums, or 200L drums and just mix your own pump fuel into the mix, u can make whatever ratio you like then from e50 all the way through.....

Didnt know you could buy it like that. I just rock up to the servo with a couple of 60l drums and fill em up from the bowser

mrsquiggle.. im running two lift pumps, a pierburg intank and a carter gold external

Quote: Originally Posted by VLT 88 all my seals etc are fine although i have braided lines and alchohol capable injectors etc. i drive mine once or twice a week. mine is on a very mild e85 tune with 22psi in it and the tuners said when i get a proper boost controller we will push it a bit harder and have no problems screwing 27+psi into it. its 99c a litre by the way, cheap as what servo is that at? Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

How does it have higher octane and better economy when the v8's at bathurst had to pit more time than in previous years. I'll stick to 98 octane thanks

Quote: Originally Posted by gold cal How does it have higher octane and better economy when the v8's at bathurst had to pit more time than in previous years. I'll stick to 98 octane thanks Oh wow....

yeh if u had read the whole thread not the last 2 posts you would know that you use 25-30% more fuel when running on e85 thats why, but you will make prob 15-20% more power (rough guestimate dep on set up etc etc) and nobody on here said you get better economy on e85... as for octane you will have around the same octane as say c16 which is $200 for 20L as opposed to say $70 for 20L on e85..... better you stick to your 98 octane champ, your not ready for e85!!!!! as for gumming up problems, that is usually the case with straight methanol not e85 as they have additives to stop this from happening so that it can be stored for a period of time eg:underground tanks at servo