found a bit of info on some vapour injection systems today suprised me a little! never thought id see one on a 454 lol bit of a good read not much info but proves its definatly suitable for some good performance! kinda spewin i just had my GRA system fitted, wouldve paid extra to have this stuff fitted http://members.iinet.net.au/~mikejh/testingframe.html http://www.australianlpgwarehouse.com.au/eurogas.htm http://www.parnell.com.au/index.php?...27&Itemi d=41 (http://www.parnell.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=41)

wel that looks good but if it only 2-3kw dif who cares really if it was to improve performance bye 10 kw well ud start seriously thinkin bout it u know how much these are ?

its not just power theyve seen gains for though, vapour injection systems have always seen a good increase in torque and mainly drivability, echonemy and even emissions! also better cooling properties and the system can be addapted to the stock inlet manifold and existing ECU, so much easier tune and fit and would be more adaptable to a wider range of cars... will be a bit like the change from carb system to EFI. probly not a big a deal for a car like a VL as the GRA system goes quite well ist still pretty early days for it in the performance market, but i think they get a bit more than 2-3kw also as you can see im pretty keen on it! lol

was talking to a mate about this the other day... Think about it price of gas, gas being direct injected, octane level of gas... Econemy would be awesome and it would be cheap to run aswell... not just the performace is better but ecomeny aswell!

I think you need two injectors per cylinder to make big power. I was quoted $4K for a system for the VL, this was fitted and tuned but anything above 160rwkws wasnt possible without six more injectors. If you want scope for power upgrades and reasonable cost stick with the proven GRA setup.

was that the Keihin injector system? theyre running big blocks with just 8 injectors. your right about the GRA being a proven setup, but this is a good step in the right direction for future setups

injectors are good depending how far u wanna go.. some guys on the ford forums have a system and the injectors are rated up to something like 85hp a cylinder. anyone got any prices? how much for a simple system installed on a stock non turbo vl, for example? how much more than GRA?

id be pretty interseted if i saw the resultsd on a vl and they were good and ure right gas has a nice high octane le vel so should run well and get better lileage

Don't get wrapped around the axles with the higher octane rating meaning better mileage. It's a simple fact that you will use more LPG to make the same power as Petrol. The reason being that LPG has a lower calorific value than petrol therefore to make the same power you have to use more of it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sinister injectors are good depending how far u wanna go.. some guys on the ford forums have a system and the injectors are rated up to something like 85hp a cylinder. anyone got any prices? how much for a simple system installed on a stock non turbo vl, for example? how much more than GRA? Prices are the same for non-turbo. 4k for the injection and i paid $3250 for my GRA setup. So around $750 more for the injection. Thats in Adelaide and i am sure prices will vary quite a bit.

if you wat injection fitted to your car we use prins injection systems with Keihin injector supplyed by parnell lpg in laverton call for a price it cost abit more then other cheap kit out their but u pay for the best in the market call 95559791 and speak to stuart no power loss you can even gain power in some cars

What ever you do if you are thinking of getting a system fitted make sure you thoroughly check the installers experience and also see if you can speak to some satisfied customers. I am a fitter with 15 years in the industry and all I seem to do lately is deal with @#!$ ups and illegal conversions, even by so called "industry leaders" who I consistantly see them doin illegal conversions just to make a buck. I am a Tartarini preferred installer and I also use Eurogas but by far the best gear on the market ATM is the Tartarini system. And yes I have fitted many different systems as I have been around injection since its inception and the only thing that I have fitted that has NEVER had a customer complaint is my Tartarini stuff. I have done VE6.0L to ford and commo sixes N/A's turbo's Nissan Xtrails camry's magna's CRV's territories captiva ect ect ect. and have had nothing but perfect feedback from all my customers. Now you guys that are wanting injection fitted to your VL's it gets a little hard to do dual fuel cause the VL isn't sequential injection. There are systems on the market like Romano (Brrrrrrrrrr) and Prins that reckon that you can do em but let me tell you I have never seen one run right with this gear. If I was to do a VL N/A or turbo I would be using profire Engine management system to run a set of gas injectors sequentially. The profire is just like fitting haltek or motec to your car, but just to run LPG injection. Its pricey but it can support very big HP without too much problems. Heres a pic of one on a V8 xp panelvan with nitros. If you need a quote or just wanna ask more q's ring me on 9887-1315 and ask for Anthony. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

lol im spewin i didnt know about this stuff when i did my gas conversion...ijust spent around $3k putting my car on GRA gear and they didnt do it properly anyway (still have to fit second gas converter and run second gas line). what kind of power can the injection support? im chasing around 300rwkw, if this gear can do it then i wont waste time and money fitting second gas converter and what not. what kind of gas tank and lines does the injection system use to get around the limit of a single line system?

Mate you need to remember that this thing runs a dedicated engine management system that is specifically designed for vapour injection systems (can be used to run petrol injection also) but if you know the price of Autronic you'd be getting close to the same pricing. The guys that make this unit have run some pretty big numbers on inline sixes running big boost and they ran a single regulator with a single feed. What you need to remember is that with injection the regulator does not behave like a standard convertor which runs no positive pressure outlet, The VSI reg runs 1.2+ bar as a vapour outlet. It has a greater potential from one reg. There are a few engines they are running that far exceed the 300rwkw mark from this type of injection. Its still in its infancy though and so far I am only allowed to fit it to what they approve of. Give it a year or less and than things will be running more smoothly over here in Melb. But I'm doin my best believe me.

no worries man thats still some mad results ive always been keen for the vapour injection, good to see it finaly becoming mor available for performance applications! might use it for my next project i notice u talked about a car that was on LPG and had nos also... ive always been told nos+lpg=boom lol ive been pretty keen on a small nos kit for my setup but yeh always told its a nono whats the go?

can you use any aftermarket ecu to do this? Like a wolf 3d or microtech or something? I heard the pricey part of the conversion is the gas injectors? Whats the deal with these, are there different sizes available to suit various power levels or are they one size fits all type of thing. I would love a gas injection setup

No the injectors are almost one of the cheapest things in the conversion. There are different sixed injectors available of course and if the regulator starts running out of legs you can just run onther one. Like with the big V8's we run 4 injectors with one reg and than the other 4 run off another. you can run as many regulators as you wish. The regulators have far more output when compared with the same size (visual size) old school convertor cause they are a positive pressure outlet on em, say 1.2bar compared to a old school convertor that relies on engine vacuum to open a valve in it to let the gas out. The LPG injection regulator just does as the name suggests, REGULATES!!!! So it just turns the gas from liquid to vapour and outputs it at a regulated and adjustable pressure to the injectors. The ECU IS a aftermarket ECU that I fit for these straight LPG systems. The Ecu and software are manufactured to run LPG injection. The engine management is a really awesome bit of kit, to say the least. You are able to control many many functions with this system, just as you would be able to with the wolf/ Motec/ Autronic ect... (well pretty close to anyway)It has fantastic and easy to use fuel and ignition maps but it can do SO MUCH MORE ie. Control cam timing, A/C clutch and so on. You can't run any old aftermarket engine managment cause LPG behaves totally different than petrol, so the programming of the unit is done to suit the way LPG behaves when it is injected into a engine. If you try to run a petrol engine management your engine is just not gonna run. For example your engine, when running on petrol, at idle will hold the injectors open for, say 3milli seconds. To run the same on gas it would need to hold the gas injectors open for around 5 ms. The demands from the engine on gas are waaaayyyy different than petrol. Gas is around 30% less dense than fuel vapour and it doesnt 'wet' the manifold walls and leave a bit behind, it behaves totally different when cold also, there are so many things that are different. But the beauty of this engine management is that it is all programmed specifically for LPG operation, BUT with the flick of a switch you can also run a set of petrol injectors and run on petrol if you so desire, cause the manufacturers have included a function to allow you to run dual fuel. Mate I LOVE LPG INJECTION it is a real passion of mine and it is definately the way of the future when it comes to LPG. It makes engines run like a dream and I love fitting it cause my customers are always so bloody happy all the time. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by misk no worries man thats still some mad results ive always been keen for the vapour injection, good to see it finaly becoming mor available for performance applications! might use it for my next project i notice u talked about a car that was on LPG and had nos also... ive always been told nos+lpg=boom lol ive been pretty keen on a small nos kit for my setup but yeh always told its a nono whats the go? Hahahahaha. Nah no way I ran nos on my V8 XB back when I was a apprentice. Mind you it took a long time and ALOT of money before I stopped melting pistons and generally stuffing things up. I was running impco back than and my main problem was consistancy with the fuel delivery, what was good one day on the dyno would melt **** down at the track. At one stage I was running petrol to the nos enrichment solenoid to get a consistant and easy shot, but it was heaps more fun and rewarding to get the LPG working on it properly and in the end I was running close to a 75hp shot with no problems. Its been years since I did it and I would be reluctant to do it on someone elses good engine if they aren't prepard for things to go wrong sometimes. If your car is dual fuel its so much easier to just run petrol as your enrichment so you dont have to get into the complexities of trying to correctly meter liquid LPG with the nos shot. I had dramas with delivery from the tank also and also problems with consistancy like I said before. The easiest way to overcome this is to pressurise the tank to a fairly big pressure but the problem with this is it can stop ya getting gas in it at certain servos so you need to drive it round for a bit to drop the pressure in it so you can fill it.