Posts Taken from the 'hks t51r - educated opinions' thread Quote: Originally Posted by Petros im not saying anything champ - that motor is one of alans baby's and im sure alot of ppl would cry if a microtech was stuck on it lol up to you champ - shop around - for transport that is - im sure toll or one of the carriers can do it for like 300 or so each way If microtechs were that crap then why do heaps of people use them and make good power???

Quote: Originally Posted by Steve If microtechs were that crap then why do heaps of people use them and make good power??? All comes down to the bloke tuning em.. U take an autronic to someone like Dyson (example.. dont read anything into it).. who does a LOT of microtech and rotary stuff, he probably wont get the most out of it compared to someone like JPC who runs it on their drag car and love using the gear. In saying that u take the same car with same mods and let those two tuners tune the computer they like best to make the most power on the same car.. Im sure u would be more than impressed by the results by both workshops.

Very good question Steve... and I will answer it - but first I will ask you a question. If steroids are bad for you ? then why do supreme athletes use them ? - That phrase within a argument with no background nor information to support it irritates me - no offence. Sure it can be done...... but how reliable ? how accurate and how good is it ? sure if your talking about a pissy 200rwkw - who cares if your microjunk can only be tuned at 500 rpm increments, who cares if you have minimal load points, tune points, and less features - I mean its only a motor right ? When you are talking of real power - then sure you can still use a microjunk. however how rough of a tune do you really want ? how would you like to have a ecu thats erratic - restarts itself, loses its tunes and can only be tuned in such terrible increments ? And what about logging ? - dont give me this bla bla bla we dont need it - how do you think the rajab race car got so far as to where it is today? proper tuning - logs that show the tiniest of things that the motor is doing and the ability to compare that and fix the problems - Lets get geeky too - how about the processing speed and the on the fly decision making of the microjunk... ok more junk here -lets compare it with a old atari 2600.... not even worth being on par with any of the decent ecu's Have you personally used a crappy cheap arse ecu with comparison to a motec? or autronic ? and can speak from this experience ? Look at the big name cars out there.... Vas - Autronic, Rajabs Motec, Bresciani - Motec. all for a reason. reliability, speed and accuracy of tuning. When your talking big power - your talking about having at least a decent brain to run it..... for the extra couple of hundred bucks.... why risk it ?

Sorry Josh dont mean to Hi-jack your thread! Quote: Originally Posted by Petros Very good question Steve... and I will answer it - but first I will ask you a question. If steroids are bad for you ? then why do supreme athletes use them ? - That phrase within a argument with no background nor information to support it irritates me - no offence. Sure it can be done...... but how reliable ? how accurate and how good is it ? sure if your talking about a pissy 200rwkw - who cares if your microjunk can only be tuned at 500 rpm increments, who cares if you have minimal load points, tune points, and less features - I mean its only a motor right ? When you are talking of real power - then sure you can still use a microjunk. however how rough of a tune do you really want ? how would you like to have a ecu thats erratic - restarts itself, loses its tunes and can only be tuned in such terrible increments ? And what about logging ? - dont give me this bla bla bla we dont need it - how do you think the rajab race car got so far as to where it is today? proper tuning - logs that show the tiniest of things that the motor is doing and the ability to compare that and fix the problems - Lets get geeky too - how about the processing speed and the on the fly decision making of the microjunk... ok more junk here -lets compare it with a old atari 2600.... not even worth being on par with any of the decent ecu's Have you personally used a crappy cheap arse ecu with comparison to a motec? or autronic ? and can speak from this experience ? Look at the big name cars out there.... Vas - Autronic, Rajabs Motec, Bresciani - Motec. all for a reason. reliability, speed and accuracy of tuning. When your talking big power - your talking about having at least a decent brain to run it..... for the extra couple of hundred bucks.... why risk it ? No, I havent personally used a crappy cheap arse ecu so I cant speak from experience, but future plans require me to think about what ecu would suit what I want. Shane aka UD_LOSE - his RB26 stroker made 700 odd rwhp. 10.66 @ 147 mph with a Manual. And with a Microtech. It didnt have a rough tune, it was very streetable, and if it was erratic and lost tunes, I know I deffinately would have heard about it. He swears by them, and he deffinatley doesnt have a cheap arsed motor that he would want to risk with a so called 'unreliable' ecu. Sure maybe early microtechs might have been crap, but I'd say they have come a long way. Were motecs awesome ecu's the day they were 1st put on the market? His other pink RB26 powered vlct also has an LT12 and is making pretty good power too, dont remember the exact figures but its deffinately quite a bit more than a pissy 200rwkw. Eddy Tassone runs an LT8 on his PSI 383 ute. That makes over 1000rwhp, and Shanes PSI355 is not far behind with his power level - also running an LT8 Would they really risk motors worth thousands of dollars with a crap ecu? So really, I dont see what the big deal is, yes maybe a bit cheaper and deffinately does the job. Sure workshop race teams need to log everything to help improve things and I spose with the rest of the money they do put into drag racing etc they might aswell pay for the most expensive ecu on the market. Petros what experiences have you had with microtechs to dislike them so much? Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros Very good question Steve... and I will answer it - but first I will ask you a question. If steroids are bad for you ? then why do supreme athletes use them ? - That phrase within a argument with no background nor information to support it irritates me - no offence. Sure it can be done...... but how reliable ? how accurate and how good is it ? sure if your talking about a pissy 200rwkw - who cares if your microjunk can only be tuned at 500 rpm increments, who cares if you have minimal load points, tune points, and less features - I mean its only a motor right ? When you are talking of real power - then sure you can still use a microjunk. however how rough of a tune do you really want ? how would you like to have a ecu thats erratic - restarts itself, loses its tunes and can only be tuned in such terrible increments ? And what about logging ? - dont give me this bla bla bla we dont need it - how do you think the rajab race car got so far as to where it is today? proper tuning - logs that show the tiniest of things that the motor is doing and the ability to compare that and fix the problems - Lets get geeky too - how about the processing speed and the on the fly decision making of the microjunk... ok more junk here -lets compare it with a old atari 2600.... not even worth being on par with any of the decent ecu's Have you personally used a crappy cheap arse ecu with comparison to a motec? or autronic ? and can speak from this experience ? Look at the big name cars out there.... Vas - Autronic, Rajabs Motec, Bresciani - Motec. all for a reason. reliability, speed and accuracy of tuning. When your talking big power - your talking about having at least a decent brain to run it..... for the extra couple of hundred bucks.... why risk it ? PETROS you dont have a fu@ken clue in fact you would have never been in a big powered microtech or motec powered street car for that matter so who are you to compare the two YES my 1000hp VR used to have a MOTEC infact it has even had a haltech but because i spend alot of $$$$ on my engines and reliability is of upmost importance to me i will only use what has NEVER let me down.....the humble MICROTECH Now that thats off my chest yes my RB28 was running the t51r kai and shock horror a microjunk anyway plenty of people have been in this car and will vouce for it as it wasnt just a weekender it was my daily...It reached full boost at 4000rpm and i turned it to 9500rpm...it was the most insane street combo that i have ever driven and the engine turbo package was just a pleasure to drive....as i drove it everyday on 20 psi no weight reduction or any of that crap i managed 3 passes before getting booted and run up to 147MPH, yes on pump fuel and yes on 20 psi And Josh the only thing you will encounter with a single cam is you wont have the same response as a 26 based engine but at a guess i would imagine you would still see full boost around 5000rpm i think you would also be very happy with a t04z now that ive done a few km with Sarahs car i really do like the way it drives and responds your more then welcome to come for a wrap in that when ive finished running it in......if you dare Hey Monster what combo are ya running now Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Also, Rotarys are known as having pretty much the most unstable motors... and pretty much all of them are tuned with Microtechs. There are maybe 5-6 Untubbed Rotarys running 9" Tyres that run quicker than the tube chassis tubbed Rajab Race Car and they all seem to be doing alright. Some of these 5-6 rotarys surely must be from big name shops? So why arent these big named shops running motecs or autronics?

Quote: Originally Posted by Steve Also, Rotarys are known as having pretty much the most unstable motors... and pretty much all of them are tuned with Microtechs. There are maybe 5-6 Untubbed Rotarys running 9" Tyres that run quicker than the tube chassis tubbed Rajab Race Car and they all seem to be doing alright. Some of these 5-6 rotarys surely must be from big name shops? So why arent these big named shops running motecs or autronics? Thats a very good point Steve, My mates 13b UNTUBBED corrolla run an 8.2@164 with a Microjunk....and i think his about 4th on the list

also, when motors get tuned, what increments do they get tuned in? are you trying to say that the tuner tunes in 1-10rpm increments all the way up2 redline if using a motec or autronic? petros has obviously had a bad experience with microtechs but they cant be that bad if boostn is running 1 and its into the 8.7s with a big $$ 26/30 setup t51r to me would seem a little 2 big for a SOHC if the car is a genuine everyday streeter if its only like a weekender then id go the 51r spl BB

Here is a couple off the top of my head Tony Rigoli 7.7@176mph MICROTECH Huntingdale Auto's 7.80@181mph MICROTECH Eddy Tassone 8.1@176mph UNTUBBED, MICROTECH Maybe you need to educate these people Petros Quote: Originally Posted by EVL 51R 5k might be a little too high considering id only be taking it to sub 7k... the Z may well turn out to be a better option... Shane you tell me soon as that badboys run in and ill be round your crib in a flash... definatly keen to see how it performs... Yeah no worries mate will do, btw Rob showed me your beast last week very impressive....would you be pissed if there was another calais cruisin around perth that colour Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Dont take it as a personal dig anyone btw - its something i feel strongly about for past experience too. Ill get into it off this poor guys thread with you guys.

Shanes the very reason i bought a Microjunk, If PSI-355 can push out 1000hp UDLOSE can push out 700hp the pink vlct can push out around 450hp ALL ON PUMP FUEL and there all driven on the street they must do a great job. And if they can support massive power like that i have no problem running it on my car.

nah guys dont dish on petros the dude has built a quick drag/street car thers obviously a reason he doesnt like the ecu so lets hear it before making judgements ey? p.s anyone with any info on the haltech e11 feel free to chime in :P

If he has one

has anyone ever heard of them forgetting their tune before? I emailed TRP about it a while back they said it's the first time they ever had, and cannot understand how it is possible.

Had one in my SR20DET TRX, never had a single issue with it, made as much power as any other similar modded SR and ran sweet actually. i like the hand controller, its a neat touch to have digital water temp/boost readings.

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros Dont take it as a personal dig anyone btw - its something i feel strongly about for past experience too. Ill get into it off this poor guys thread with you guys. All good everyone has an opinion ive had dramas with my motec and got rid of it but i dont bag the product or people using it because at the end of the day there is alot of people that have great success with motec and many other brands for that matter it just comes down to personal preference...... MICROTECH FTW Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

the tune is also not in 500rpm increments it has 16 load points you can place them where ever you desire and if you dont like 16 load points you can upgrade to 32 from memory with turbo cars main factor would be retard on boost one thing i am not happy about with mine is the fact it has a massive descrepancy in boost readings compared to the e-boost 2 10 psi 48mm waste gate spring - e-boost reads 12.9 psi absolute max i've ever seen and the microtech reads an absolute max of 16psi i know i'll be losing power from this and its due to inaccuracy from the microtech at least it over estimates boost rather than under estimates or it could cop a lean out

Just bare in mind at no stage have I taken a personal dig at anyone here - I appreciate your comments ud lose - but the first part of a quick high powered motec car I did have -and taking a personal stab was unwarranted as we were discussing a ecu not myself as a person. My opinion - ill start the sentence this way and go from there - is that they were primarily designed for rotaries - WOT - Wide open throttle style of tuning. Many people have had success with them of course- kudos to them - however all the stories that have been told, seen and experienced by myself and friends has lead me to be so anti-microtec. Of course if you ring a distributor of the product they are not going to tell you whats crap about them thats standard - and vltrb0 - if you work it out - 16 load points / 8000 rpm is actually 500rpm increments. It seems like this argument has gone the way of - but this person uses this, and they are doing this time etc etc The three big name companies above were using them in roataries were they not ? and microtech being their bread and butter of course they will be using that. My big deal argument here - is take a spec sheet of the two ecu's - look at all the options, the processing speed ,the advantages, the inputs outputs, load points - future options when you want to go faster. so why not spend another 4 - 500 dollars and get the best of the best? And TroyVK I know of many of times where Alan has gotten down to the nitty gritty of minature RPMS on tunes to ensure that everything leaves his shop faultless. Its not about time or money - its about a car with his name on it leaving the shop and being faultless. At the end of the day I guess being from melbourne we are lucky to have everyone and everything when it comes to ecu's and tuning so I can personally understand how people in the other states are forced - or have to rely on the ecu that their tuner knows well and understands.

Quote: Originally Posted by Petros and vltrb0 - if you work it out - 16 load points / 8000 rpm is actually 500rpm increments. thats assuming you want to distribute them evenly over the rev range you can concentrate all 16 within a few hundred rpm and for a drag instance where only high rpm is required more points can be concentrated in these areas and like i said too if 16 is not sufficient you can double that giving 250 rpm increments over the whole rev range and you know as well as anyone else when it comes to spending you get what you pay for and i for one would prefer a motec any day of the week but it is not justified in a street car especially when i only need ignition. You pay for alot of features you dont use. Also your spot on with the tuning accuracy with the motec and modifying very small things but how much would a customer have to pay if they modded their ecu after every run to go faster?

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeti Sorry If I have missed it, but how many load points does a Motec have? Would a tuner need to use more than the 16 load points that a Microtech has? How many load points would a tuner usually use? all models vary http://www.motec.com.au/m4club.htm