i felt like opening a can of worms some of u guys have spent big cash making tough naturally aspirated factory stroke and strokers and the like... doing heads, manifold, induction e.t.c Did you just not know about other ways to do the motor, ie forced induction, or u specifically wanted n/a ?? Cause the way i've always seen it.. u spend thousands on the heads, thousands on a good manifold, a carby or throttle body, cams, exhaust, stroker crank, expensive fuel blah blah... very rough guesstimate, this will make 250rwkw or more.. not a hell of a lot more than that though. Now why wouldn't you of rather of just bought a fat snail, got exhaust manifolds made up, did the pistons and rods, stock crank machined, stock heads, stock cam.. and make a stinkload more power with better manners and drivability and have it on demand or not.. as opposed to constant anger from a high compression n/a combo. All i see is advantages everywhere to a forced induction setup and not much going for an n/a combo, surely its not a price thing as i cant see how a turbo costs more... Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

There addicted to the sound of solid lifers Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Reliability? Legality? Instant power? You cant drive around with a 6/71 out the bonnet. I'm all for turbo's but there is almost no one that has anything to do with V8s and turbo's... There is no kit to buy its all custom. There big bucks in manifolds. Injection, ECU... injectors etc... its not just a bolt on turbo and theres your 300rwkw. I want to turbo a V8 one day, possibly a set of twins, but all depends on how far you want to go. You cant just drop a turbo onto a stocko 308 and pray itll be sweet, cause it wont be. I dont care which mate tells you. Who's going to engineer your turbo / twin turbo V8? Chassis upgrade? Brakes? Where your intercooler going? Holes? I think the real reason is that its a fairly new thing to do (less than 5 years old) and there just isnt anyone with real knowledge about them yet. If a big reputable tuner could come up with a kit to turbo say a VN - VS with minor mods... that would be the new VL Turbo.

make 250rwkw with a small block stroker chev, and make 250rwkw on a vortech blown vs. i've seen both run, and i've seen what happens Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

injectors and ecu would have to be done n/a too.. cancelling each other out. sure u need the exhaust, but its nothing a shop cant do, i think some ppl are even offering them off the shelf now.. i kthink horsepower factory does? reliability ha.. thats debatable, legality neither are legal so thats no argument.. instant power! a big cam as much a lag as a turbo might be, size the turbo properly and you're fine, and then of course theres a stally for the auto. No-one said anything about stock, tho Active automotive did indeed drop a turbo on a stock v8 vq statesman.. made 394rwhp, this is before u do the bottom end and run 15psi+ kits are for newbies, u make this stuff yourself..

Quote: Originally Posted by Sinister Active automotive did indeed drop a turbo on a stock v8 vq statesman.. made 394rwhp, this is before u do the bottom end and run 15psi+ kits are for newbies, u make this stuff yourself.. Love to see how long this stato lasts. I think you answered your original question in your last line. Also remember that turboing V8s now is only a very new thing, it was frowned upon until a year or two ago. It was blower or NA thats it. Blowers arent legal so NA it is. That and you need an engineers report for turbocharging, you dont for NA.

some of mates have tough n/as and others have blown v8s... n/a blokes think n/a motors are the ducks guts, real power, the sound, ultimate repsect from anyone who sees it and considering fi a form of cheating for hp :P etc etc, my mates with fi cars have constant reliability problems but have good power, no lumpy cams or anything... personal preferance really! Steve

reliability is an issue with FI. i prefer carby over EFI too

While a n/a engine may technically not be legal they can be seen to be legal. Pretty hard to hide a blower/turbo. A 355 or 383 strker doesnt have to be grumpy to make 250 + rwkw. I see advantages going both ways but for me i prefer a strker n/a it's also a different class in dyno comp's not that i'm into them & same go's for the 1/4 mile.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sinister i felt like opening a can of worms some of u guys have spent big cash making tough naturally aspirated factory stroke and strokers and the like... doing heads, manifold, induction e.t.c Did you just not know about other ways to do the motor, ie forced induction, or u specifically wanted n/a ?? Cause the way i've always seen it.. u spend thousands on the heads, thousands on a good manifold, a carby or throttle body, cams, exhaust, stroker crank, expensive fuel blah blah... very rough guesstimate, this will make 250rwkw or more.. not a hell of a lot more than that though. Now why wouldn't you of rather of just bought a fat snail, got exhaust manifolds made up, did the pistons and rods, stock crank machined, stock heads, stock cam.. and make a stinkload more power with better manners and drivability and have it on demand or not.. as opposed to constant anger from a high compression n/a combo. All i see is advantages everywhere to a forced induction setup and not much going for an n/a combo, surely its not a price thing as i cant see how a turbo costs more... I've asked myself the same bloody question! Instead of doing what i have done, i would of preferred to stroke it to a 355, not even touch the vn heads, reverse cast manifolds and whack a big turbo on and keep it blow through. That alone can be done for easily under $10K, will make more power than what i have now, better economy and room for alot more improvement. Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Its just a personal preference, cause in the end if you spend a few bucks you'll get the power and its also wat sound you want with the appearance(overall package) and true if you get pulled over and they say pop the bonnet a 355 or 383 can still have the stock appearance. sleeper to cops..

for me, its the challenge of building a motor so angry that it can only just barely be driven on the street hi comp and a fuggen big cam = pure horn plus, i prefer torque on tap, 100% of the time i wouldn't call my motor that grumpy, and it made a lazy 235rwkw and 637NM...so the search continues Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

cos they can

Because all the poeple i know that build stinker atmos, don't have a clue about how turbos work and are scared of the technology, it's so easy to turbo a 5 litre, reverse exhaust manifolds and a some j-pipes. Only now people are starting to see the light. FI is more reliable than a stinker atmo if you design it properly, clearnance wise for heat etc. A turbo 5 litre will last a lot longer than a stock stroke/solid 5 litre which needs 7500rpm to make "decent" power and throw a A9L out the side And instant torque...my mates crap on about this all the time with there 8000rpm revving solids with 4500rpm converters, and i say this....put the standard torque converter in your stinker solid and then come and tell me how much instant torque it has then , atmo lag anyone. But I still shudder everytime i hear how much a stinker atmo motor cost, some cost as much as my whole car or more. cheers darren Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

cos they like wasting money :P

Well depends what you want the deciding facotrs would be cost and preference, some want forced some want naturally aspirated! Alot of peformance orentated people out there cant build engines/cars themsleves and need to shop the whole build out and this is where people get eaten alive, and generally cant afford to build what they want where as we have built my motor/car ourself and done everything inhouse except block machine work which a friend does so it costs nowhere near having one built by a workshop! Its all in the combo you decide to build because all compontents need to match and mate with eachother to work effectively and extract the most from what your wanting, some claim that big cammed high compression v8s are laggy and undrivable with bad manners theres no way in hell my VR has lagg or any form of delay when taking off or through its power range, and i must admit the engine is pretty far on the wild side for a n/a storker yet i drive it all the time and its manners arnt as bad as one would think Im a firm believer that in the parts and engine world you get what you pay for, and this i mean with quality of parts and so on, so if i was to build a forced fed engine i would only use quality componentry, basically build it identically to my n/a motor except compression and cam choice would be the only difference, so cost for a force fed engine to me would far excede the cost of my n/a combo Im loving the naturally aspirated route ive taken this round with my car, and wouldnt change it for nothing as i love the pure raw sound, its power delivery and the sheer grunt it has, and the speechless face on my mate that owns a 9sec vlt when i gave it a full power squirt with him in the back. Sure you can get a stocker and do a home job and bolt up a turbo/blower and do it on the cheap side, but how effective will it be? how long will it last, sure you can be lucky and it lasts or is reliable but lets be realistic here! and how much power will it really make? ive seen so many people claim "X" amount of power yet we all know and cant kidd ourselves that dynos are a tuning tool only and can be so far out that it can give the owner a false indication as to how much power there car is making! i believe mph is the tru judge for the power output of your car, hence why my car hasnt seen a dyno in over 2 years. In my group of mates there are both combos running around being forced and n/a in our cars. and from my experiences in both areas unless you spend the money in parts and componentry up front you will run into issues and reliability along the way, my mates that have spent the initial outlay on building a strong combo all seem to be extremly reliable and have only minor bugs to sort out with faulty items such as coils, ignition, tuning etc. My combo is decent, yet not over the top it runs 10.4@131 in a full weighted street car, it has a decked out boot and full trim and i turn it to 8000+ and i think is pretty streetable considering how agressive it is, its been screwed together now for just over 2 years and the only isses being ive lost a cam lobe which cost a whole $300 to replace with lifters, which can be a general issue with the holden 308 Well thats my two cents worth on this topic Trent Some original photos have not been recovered yet.

Quote: Originally Posted by mrTUFFER Im a firm believer that in the parts and engine world you get what you pay for, and this i mean with quality of parts and so on, so if i was to build a forced fed engine i would only use quality componentry, basically build it identically to my n/a motor except compression and cam choice would be the only difference, so cost for a force fed engine to me would far excede the cost of my n/a combo Yes but you don't need to spend all the $$$$ on certain areas like you have now , if you go turbo. For example, going turbo, there really isn't any need to go a big roller cam. Cars out there have made big power just running a solid, so you save a couple of grand there. Heads don't need to be worked on as much, just a clean tidy up and you save another couple of grand. It is very easy to make decent power with a very basic blow through setup. It will be reliable, engine won't be stressed at all and can be built for probably half the price as what a big NA 600hp will cost and will make alot more power. As far as "turbo lag" goes, with the right setup full boost could be achieved by 2500-3000rpm and will stay there till redline. Next time you guys are in your car, see how quick it will jump to 2500-3000rpm when you floor it, it wil be virtually instant and will be the same as a turbo car.

But Trent does all his porting etc himself, so that means the head cost isnt any different?

i had a single turbo on a 355 blothrough set up and a reasonably decent size turbo and it would come on boost around 2500-3000 no worries

Well well isn't it funny who pops up in forums! Welcome Mega HP! I enoy both but the reason I went N/A is because back in the 90's when I got into cars, there was no turbo charged V8's, hell there was no turboed anything! If it was, it was draw through. It was N/A or nitrous or roots blowers. So building a more serious N/A motor has been a natural progression from there. Plus I have a nitrous kit in the shed just itching to go on something. Sinister, you must admit there is nothing like the sound of a super tuff N/A motor! At the end of the day though, if I was to start from scratch now, I would build a turbocharged motor.