Since December 19, NSW roads have claimed 20 lives, 17 have died in Queensland, 16 in VIC, eight in South Australia, four each in Western Australia and Tasmania and three in the Northern Territory. The Australian Capital Territory remains fatality free. But arnt speed cameras and RBT the answer to the road toll????? So why isnt the road toll declineing???? and why the fu*k arnt speed cameras slowin people down???? bigger fines, double points and lose of licence just aint workin!!!!just makin people more angry and poor...... I have payed out in 2001 to 2002 around $1500 in speeding fines.....2002 to 2003 about $700 and I still speed.......sitting on 60km-70km for 20-30km is just crap especially when 2-3 years ago the same roads were up to 80km...and the road toll was still a problem.... We (N.T) also have a open speed limit on the open highway, we have lost 3 so far...all other sates and terroitorys are max 110km...So if speed is a problem then we should be on top of the death list.....should'nt we????

hmm... no matter how much u reduce the speed limit, there are always going to be fatalities, it's a fact of travel. We can only REDUCE the number of fatalities through measures such as RBT's and slower speed limits but there will always be ACCIDENTS... these are the occurances where drink driving and speed do not play a roll, perhaps it may be due to falling asleep at the wheel, driving into a blinding sun, aquaplaining or someone riding out in front of a vehicle. It is very unfortunate but there reduction in road deaths can only go so far. Anyway, that's my opinion and I'd just like to add that I am sincerely sorry for anyone who has lost someone due to road traffic accidents.

If road tolls are high they say we need more speed cameras to slow ppl down and bring the road toll down, if road fatalities are low, they say cameras are working lets introduce more. Sounds like a good deal right?

Quote: Originally Posted by Sin If road tolls are high they say we need more speed cameras to slow ppl down and bring the road toll down, if road fatalities are low, they say cameras are working lets introduce more. Sounds like a good deal right? We get told all the time...This year we are goin to keep the road toll down....then come the end of the year, its higher then last year....... All goverments sit there sayin speed cameras will fix the problem....well hello witch problem????? The state dedit or the bloody road toll?????Well the road toll aint declineing.....or tho the states debits are!!!!!! Fu*k the qik fix (revenue grabbing) lets fix the problem....... RBT units are workin by the looks of the figures on people arrested for drink driving for the past year....... So to all state and territory goverments lets find out why the hell our road toll keeps rising.....and stick your fu*ken speed cameras up your a*ses they just aint workin for what there really??? (supposed to be) designed for (lowering our road) toll)......

the fixed speed cameras in NSW don't work at all in my opinion. Firstly we get a number of warning signs saying that there is a speed camera ahead so everyone slows down to the speedlimit and then once past the camera speeds up again. There isn't much point to them when they only slow people down for 50m. I think making defensive driving courses copulsary before you get your red and green P's and then one before your full liscense might be a more effective approach. Germany have a system like this and their road toll is less than ours, their drivers are courteous ie not staying in the right lane (in Germany the left lane), not tailgatting, etc. These people have no speedlimits on their freeways and you often see Ferraris doing 300km/h+. The roads are execelent unlike the freeways we have along Wollongong where you don't dare go faster than 100km/h due to the bad bumps. The RBT are an execelnt idea and they should introduce more of these but having police sometimes with a rader gun nearly causes an accident in itself by the way people suddenly slow down. I think the government should stop funding for these speed cameras which cost a **** load and spend the money on driver education and get the old ****s off the road who complain about the young P-platers but run poor innocent children over because of their stubourness to believe that they are not well enough to drive. The liscense system is a joke. To get your L's they have the ****ing answer sheets on the RTA website and all you have to do is memorise the things. Its not hard and once you get your L's thats it its up to your parents to show you how to drive and they show you the stuff wrong because things have changed since they got their liscense. The L's is a joke i couldn't believe in 5mins i was now eligible to drive on the road. For ****s sake it took longer to fill out the medical report than do the test. The red P's test they think their improved with the additional time on the P plates and also having to do 50hours on your L's. 50 hours is nothing and people at my school still made hours up thinking their hot **** once they got their P's and then have a serious accident which has happened to 1/2 of my grade and thankfully noone has been killed. Everyone thought i was crazy when i ended up with 200hours on my L's but at least i got the most experience i could and at least took the RTA's system as seriously as i could unlike alot of other people who think that they can drive after doing 10 hours. I don't know how their going to fix the system. Maybe have people come in once a month and show their log book which the RTA then records. At the moment the RTA is trying to introduce 2 years on your L plates. I really don't think this is fair and might even increase the road toll and accidents due to people on their L's not worrying about driving until 3 months before they get their P's and then fill in the log book with false hours. Also people on their L's will drive more often by themselves. I knew a heap of people who did this, one of them crashed severly writting the car off. I think once you have your P's you have to do a driver awareness course... Seeing how quickly you stop in the wet without ABS, cornering, alcohol, fatigue, speeding, taligatting, etc. I'm going to go to one of the courses they hold at eastern creek. $190, its not that much and if it does help to keep the road toll down why dosn't the government introduce this and fix up all the dodgy roads that we have?

Alot of its got to do with peoples attitudes yeah, i won't disagree with that. I do think speed camera's are working. And for the people that they don't work for are the ones with attitude problems. I don't know how many times I've been tailgated by some angry looking old dude while I'm sitting on the speed limit, or by a group of really young kids. What would they do if I had to brake suddenly. Lock it up and get rear ended by the car thats behind them? Swerve off to either side and hit either a tree/ person or another car? NT may have open speed limits, but you can't exactly say everyone flocks there for their holidays. Comparing the amount of cars on Qld, NSW roads to NT roads and there would be a slight difference. And alot of people should be doing driver awareness courses. Definately agreeing with that. I'd say that people should be given mandatory driving tests every couple of years or something - But people can drive sensibly while theres someone else in the car. So it should just be a awareness test as dragme was talking about. Braking techniques, cornering, cornering under acceleration. What to do if your tyres dig into the gravel on the side of the road. Regathering etc. Really dodgy, I'd say the roads could have alot to do with it. But I'd still say the major cause of road accidents are fatigue, impatience and a bad attitude.

ne1 have ne idea how many of those death were P platers? my mate just got his P's on monday after 4 or 5 lessons wit the instructor, went wit him 2 box hill and ill tell u im never hoppin in car wit him again. i couldn't believe he even got them coz he is simply one of them people that dont just automatically have the 'co-ordination' others have when they start. he got his L's at 18, had em for 3 months and got his P's. he got 98% on his drivin, and i think 50 or 60% on the computer test. i also remember sumthin about the black zone in NT or wherever it is, and they got rid of the no speed limit and put a speed limit there, and since then more ppl have died on those roads wit the limit than there was w/out. fact or fiction i dunno. chris.

i agree with everything dragme said. i am from the wollongong area also and our roads are shocking. the speed camera on the northern distributor is one of the most shockingly placed cameras ever. it is on a long stretch of road where lots of people may speed. but ive seen alot of accidents nearly caused when people suddenly slam on the brakes and go from the limit of 80 or wat eva they may be doing to 60 in a matter of seconds and then everyone has to slam theres on aswell and traffic banks up and people get pissed off. also. the RTA's P plater driving test is an absolute joke. they spend too much time on pointless shoulder checks in places where they arent needed and 6000 observational movements during Three Points Turns and reverse parks rather than concentrating on things that make poeple a good driver. For example, when u turn onto the freeway, the speedlimit may be 100 in places, but you are not required to move into the left lane unless it is a signposted instruction. You just sit in the right lane doing your maximum speed of 80 and the old bloke who looks like he will have a heart attack will also sit in the left lane doing 80...this holds everyone up. Also the reverse parking aspect of the test is a ***in joke...u reverse park a car...with no car behind u. u just pull up along side a car in the middle of a quiet street and reverse park it...you are allowed to go 5 metres back without losing a point and then 7 before you fail the test. 4 direction changes can be made with no loss of poitns and 6 before you fail. Also the speed limit. 1km/h over the speedlimit and its instant failure, and u can sit 15km/h below the speedlimit before u lose points. This then means every sits at about 40 in a 50 zone and holds traffic up and we end up having people who will drive along with their concentration on their speedo rather than on the road and wats around them. speed cameras are an absolute joke and just a complete revenue raiser. nothing else. i have had my P's for less than a month and can't believe the way some people on the road drive and some of the stupid things put in place to try and make us safer. i think i have typed enough now. much more than enough infact.

I agree, we should have some kinda of actual driving lessons that are compulsory to get ur P's.. not like the lessons u pay them guys for, but like the holden driving courses and stuff. That way you go onto the road knwoing wat to do in case of an emergency.. Some of us, come from families where our old mans have been into cars all there lives and have a decent idea of driving a car hard, just thru expereince , thats a bonus to us coz they can teach us... but for the others , they dont get taught the important things about driving, as some of u have said..... .. my 2c

A speed camera isn't going to cause a fatal accident though. And if its making people jump from 80 to 60 then the car behind should be far enough behind to be able to react anyway. Its the fact that people are slowing down instead of avoiding a ticket thats good. If people can't speed because they are afraid of a ticket then they'll slow things down. Just my opinion

Yes thats true. My dad has told me that when he has gone to Victoria for work how different it is and you actually have to do the speedlimit due to speedcameras that arn't signposted. In NSW however we have 3 or 4 signs before the cameras warning us. Everyone slows down and then speeds up once past them. Yes the person behind should be far enough to break but the way people tailgate they don't have time. People still arn't afraid to speed as they speed once past the police its just they panic once they see them. And yes another thing is the reverse park. I mean anyone can pass (although some people in my year still failed) with one car. It isn't hard to clear just one car and not worry about anything behind you. On my P's test i drove 10km/h slower than the posted speed limit and nothing gets said to you, its a joke. Another thing that gets me cut is the way people stay in the right lane along highways and stuff when there are two lanes. They think the "stay left unless overtaking" only applies along the freeway. Yeh i agree with watching your parents drive and learning a lot. Since i have been into cars since i was 10 or 11 and go-carted a bit, etc getting in a car and driving wasn't so hard. I did practice during my first week of my P's in a big empty deserted car park cornering and heavy braking, feeling what it was like to lock up and not be able to steer, controlling it, etc. Its good to be able to see what other people do in these situations but its different to experience it yourself. By the way before i book myself in, has anyone done the driving course at eastern creek? IS it worth it and are the benefits really there? It covers theory as well which looks at alcohol, fatique, etc. I don't drink and drive or any of that and thats all common sense but am wondering whats the driving aspect like? Thanks

two things dragme has said. Quote: Went to a party with a couple of mates and some chicks. Got **** faced and then apparently according to everyone there went on about ripping ****ing burnouts in m VL. Lol everyone thought i would reveal some secrets but all i did was speak about the **** i speak about every day except i told everyone and pretented i was drifting. Great night, **** morning when i woke up. Quote: I don't drink and drive or any of that and thats all common sense but am wondering whats the driving aspect like? are you a sh|t talker or what?

yeh I was thrashing my old mans falcon around the depot when i was ten... nothing to hit but big expensive buses, he didnt know i had the keys but! I think it helped me in alot of ways, seeing as the amount of times i had to controll the car AWAY from the buses.. lol

Pardon???? I didn't drive. I didn't even have my car down there. I talked about burnouts. Read more carefully.

more about ripping burnouts and common sense... maybe you should write more carefully.

So your saying you have never done any burnouts? Your right it isn't sensible but when i did do burnouts ( i don't anymore since i got new tyres) i did them in an empty carpark unlike some people that rip it up along a main street.

dragme i am not saying i have never done burnouts, but im not the one on my soapbox about safe driving. anyway im over it. Quote: i agree with everything dragme said. i am from the wollongong area also and our roads are shocking. the speed camera on the northern distributor is one of the most shockingly placed cameras ever. it is on a long stretch of road where lots of people may speed. but ive seen alot of accidents nearly caused when people suddenly slam on the brakes and go from the limit of 80 or wat eva they may be doing to 60 in a matter of seconds and then everyone has to slam theres on aswell and traffic banks up and people get pissed off. i have witnessed accidents and the results of accidents on that very stretch where people have gone up the back of someone or other. funnily enough those accidents don't seem to be as common now the cameras are there. however, i'll agree it is very annoying when people slow down to 50 along there. the fact is these speed cameras catch a hell of a lot of people speeding despite the additional signage, and for those who have slowed down and not been caught the cameras have obviously worked. if you are really pissed about the revenue raised then don't be a contributer to the revenue ie. don't speed. EEVL: just a little extra info. the death toll in nsw for 2003 was the lowest recorded since 1949. the toll was 552 ( 552 too many imo) and was 9 below the 2002 toll. speed caused 38% of fatal crashes compared to 46% in 2002.

so since those figures i guess we will be expecting more speed cameras in 2004. Anyone seen that device on the news a couple of months ago? Its a device that stops people going over a certain speed limit. They want it installed in every car. I guess this will be the next step up from speed cameras in the next couple of years. I'm not saying anything about safe driving. I'm talking about what the RTA should do and how the roads should be improved.

Quote: Originally Posted by vlred EEVL: just a little extra info. the death toll in nsw for 2003 was the lowest recorded since 1949. the toll was 552 ( 552 too many imo) and was 9 below the 2002 toll. speed caused 38% of fatal crashes compared to 46% in 2002. Good to see the over all road toll is better then the xmas holiday toll..... But I to think a driver school set up for L and P platers is a very good idea...and I think more money spent on roads is a even better idea...we seam to pay alot of money out each year Tax, Rego, Fines ect....but the bloody roads are deplorable.....in alot of cases RBT must stay but speed cameras have to go......

The RTA should send every person the police book to a driving course so older people can become up to date with the current road rules also. Once i was picked up at a party by a friends mum and her brother was driving on his L's. We came to a busy roundabout in Wollongong and he looked to his right and there were no cars so he was about to proceed through...all of a sudden his mum yelled to slam the breaks on. Why u may think? Because there was a car on his LEFT! She made him give way to a car on the left thinking that was the rules wen using roundabouts. This has left him thinking it is the right way to drive and the worst thing was a car behind us nearly went up our ass as they expected him to continue through the roundabout as anyone would...before coming to a sudden stop for no reason. the guy shouldnt have been so close to us...espceially since there were L Plates on the car but people tailgate. its just a fact of life wen driving. To sum up.....the RTA is ****ed